Roman road found beneath the Stockwell Arms

Adam Wightman on the site of the dig

Adam Wightman on the site of the dig

First published in Local News by

ARCHAEOLOGISTS have unearthed a Roman road beneath a former Colchester pub.

A dig at the site of the Stockwell Arms, in West Stockwell Street, has revealed an unexpected glimpse into our history.

The discovery could mean historians have to revise their drawings of Colchester circa 40AD, after the road was found three metres away from where they thought it would be. The road would have run from north to south, through the ancient settlement of Camulodunum.

It was discovered by the Colchester Archaeological Trust ’s Adam Wightman as he excavated the ground behind the Grade II-listed building ahead of its refurbishment and relaunch as a restaurant and real ale house, called the Stockwell.

Mr Wightman said: “We knew the road would be here, but it has a slightly different alignment than expected.

“The original drawings would have been made after certain discoveries. There could be a number of reasons they were slightly out.

“Now they will have to be altered. The wall is definitely Roman and probably from the later period, but we can’t be more specific.”

The dig has also turned up pottery, plates and a pin believed to be from a piece of Roman jewellery. The artefacts will be placed inside the building when it opens in October.

Philip Crummy, archaeological trust director, said: “It sounds geeky and doesn’t look much, but this is a fundamental piece of archaeology.

“We can trace these roads back to the walls, where there could have been a gate to the town.” Owner Robert Morgan is spending £1million to bring the historic pub back to life. Work started in 2010.

He wants to preserve as much of the historical elements in the building as he can. The archaeological dig is taking place while work continues on an extension at the back of the pub. Mr Morgan said: “It is exciting they have been able to find it.”

He wants to mount a crusade knight’s helmet at the door and have a replica set of chainmail armour for children to try on inside.

Comments (19)

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9:02am Tue 31 Jul 12

historyman22 says...

A pity there wasn't a bit more to this article. It starts by saying that a road has been found, but goes on to talk about a wall from a later (Roman) period. What then has actually been found? Not the best treatment of a potentially interesting find.

Interested to hear that the owner is going to put some reproduction (Crusader) items in the pub though. Since these are neither from Roman nor 14 Century times (the ninth and last Crusade ended in 1272; i.e. between 50 to 100 years before the Stockwell Arms was built), is it now the case that the (former) pub will be aiming not only to reinvent itself but also its own historical timeline and significance?
Hope that it isn't just going to become a new 'theme bar' - along the line of say Wetherspoons if the restaurant angle doesn't work. Some local residents have apparently been passed this rumour. Hope that is all it is.
A pity there wasn't a bit more to this article. It starts by saying that a road has been found, but goes on to talk about a wall from a later (Roman) period. What then has actually been found? Not the best treatment of a potentially interesting find. Interested to hear that the owner is going to put some reproduction (Crusader) items in the pub though. Since these are neither from Roman nor 14 Century times (the ninth and last Crusade ended in 1272; i.e. between 50 to 100 years before the Stockwell Arms was built), is it now the case that the (former) pub will be aiming not only to reinvent itself but also its own historical timeline and significance? Hope that it isn't just going to become a new 'theme bar' - along the line of say Wetherspoons if the restaurant angle doesn't work. Some local residents have apparently been passed this rumour. Hope that is all it is. historyman22
  • Score: 0

9:17am Tue 31 Jul 12

Sdapeze says...

The owners have done Colchester a huge favour by restoring this wonderful set of buildings for posterity. As to it becoming a Weatherspoons drinking palace in the future, that will never happen. It's location and the lack of parking is against it, as was the reason for it failing as a pub. As to the Roman remains, this can come as no surprise, as the building is within the walls of the colonia and every piece of that land was Roman. The colonia was so packed with Roman activity that the Romans had overspill beyond the walls to such a far flung place as Middleborough and beyond. It could be guaranteed to find Roman remains. This excavation of yet another small piece of the jigsaw is of huge importance to adding to our knowledge of the Roman period.
The owners have done Colchester a huge favour by restoring this wonderful set of buildings for posterity. As to it becoming a Weatherspoons drinking palace in the future, that will never happen. It's location and the lack of parking is against it, as was the reason for it failing as a pub. As to the Roman remains, this can come as no surprise, as the building is within the walls of the colonia and every piece of that land was Roman. The colonia was so packed with Roman activity that the Romans had overspill beyond the walls to such a far flung place as Middleborough and beyond. It could be guaranteed to find Roman remains. This excavation of yet another small piece of the jigsaw is of huge importance to adding to our knowledge of the Roman period. Sdapeze
  • Score: 1

9:19am Tue 31 Jul 12

Ilovecolchester says...

Wish this article could have been more clearly written. I was a bit confused as to what it was trying to tell us. Doubtless the Roman remains will not be on display. Totally agree with Historyman though. What on earth will the point of a glorified costume display be? Don't people know that families can visit the Castle Museum for a complete and accurate picture of Colchester's History?

More worrying though Historyman is the throwaway comment you made about the 'theme pub.' Please tell me that this is just a joke.
Wish this article could have been more clearly written. I was a bit confused as to what it was trying to tell us. Doubtless the Roman remains will not be on display. Totally agree with Historyman though. What on earth will the point of a glorified costume display be? Don't people know that families can visit the Castle Museum for a complete and accurate picture of Colchester's History? More worrying though Historyman is the throwaway comment you made about the 'theme pub.' Please tell me that this is just a joke. Ilovecolchester
  • Score: 0

10:20am Tue 31 Jul 12

partyplanner says...

Great that the pub is being restored, but pity that the Roman road that has been discovered is to be build on with an extension. Sdapeze comments that the building failed as a pub due to its lack of parking and location, how will a restaurant fare better as the same restrictions haven't changed? I'm undecided about this development, thumbs up to the restoration of the historic building and thumbs down to the extension that will make it a pastiche of its former self.
Great that the pub is being restored, but pity that the Roman road that has been discovered is to be build on with an extension. Sdapeze comments that the building failed as a pub due to its lack of parking and location, how will a restaurant fare better as the same restrictions haven't changed? I'm undecided about this development, thumbs up to the restoration of the historic building and thumbs down to the extension that will make it a pastiche of its former self. partyplanner
  • Score: 0

10:28am Tue 31 Jul 12

TheCaptain says...

The crusades in the middle east had indeed finished by the time the building was built. However the planned Spanish invasion of England in 1588 (The Spanish Armada) was deemed a crusade by the pope and catholic monarchs.
The crusades in the middle east had indeed finished by the time the building was built. However the planned Spanish invasion of England in 1588 (The Spanish Armada) was deemed a crusade by the pope and catholic monarchs. TheCaptain
  • Score: 0

11:12am Tue 31 Jul 12

historyman22 says...

Mmm. A couple of 'interesting historical' comments.
Sdapeze, I like many Colchester residents am fully aware of the presence of extensive Roman remains beneath the present day town surface level. What I said, was that it is a pity that what was found, was not written about more clearly.
As for TheCaptain's comments, whilst Pope Sixtus V allowed Philip II of Spain to collect crusade taxes and granted his men indulgences, they were never the mail wearing, cross clad knights of the 11 - 13 Century classic Crusader Iconography; the type presumably meant by the comments raised by the owner in the article. I 'stand corected' though. Just one question though. Are we to take it that the said crusader helmet and chain mail (not plate armour?) will be Spanish in its design then, and of the style worn in 1588 by spanish soldiers/sailors?
As for Ilovecolchesters comment, and that of spadeze regarding the 'weatherspoons' comment, I will try and find out more about its origin. Probably should before I mentioned it but if anyone else knows please feel free to comment.
Mmm. A couple of 'interesting historical' comments. Sdapeze, I like many Colchester residents am fully aware of the presence of extensive Roman remains beneath the present day town surface level. What I said, was that it is a pity that what was found, was not written about more clearly. As for TheCaptain's comments, whilst Pope Sixtus V allowed Philip II of Spain to collect crusade taxes and granted his men indulgences, they were never the mail wearing, cross clad knights of the 11 - 13 Century classic Crusader Iconography; the type presumably meant by the comments raised by the owner in the article. I 'stand corected' though. Just one question though. Are we to take it that the said crusader helmet and chain mail (not plate armour?) will be Spanish in its design then, and of the style worn in 1588 by spanish soldiers/sailors? As for Ilovecolchesters comment, and that of spadeze regarding the 'weatherspoons' comment, I will try and find out more about its origin. Probably should before I mentioned it but if anyone else knows please feel free to comment. historyman22
  • Score: 0

11:28am Tue 31 Jul 12

TheCaptain says...

Sorry historyman I should have put in more detail. The crusades as most people understand ended when you said and I'm sure that the helmet will be from that era. But I do like to get people thinking and you certainly know your stuff.
Sorry historyman I should have put in more detail. The crusades as most people understand ended when you said and I'm sure that the helmet will be from that era. But I do like to get people thinking and you certainly know your stuff. TheCaptain
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Tue 31 Jul 12

sandgronun64 says...

After reading the article I didn't think that I would feel impelled to comment - archaeology not really being a thing I know very much about. The comments beneath were (as ever) a source of further enlightenment.
Discussions on walls, roads and crusader get-up aside, the comment about the failure of the previous incarnation of a pub on this site proved much more interesting. True it has no parking. Neither do other pubs in the town centre. I note that Wetherspoons seems entirely bereft of a car park. True also, that it is not on the main high street. If this is a drawback for a pub then I remain unsure as to why would a restaurant at that same location be such a sure thing.
The Stockwell (as was), failed largely due to the increasing demands of Admiral Taverns; the pub-co that has successfully taken over (and ultimately shut) other pubs in Colchester and very many more across East Anglia. I remember being told directly by the last tenants that they were leaving because their rent had been raised and they could just not meet the burden of over priced beer/drinks and the additional rent. The pub was then closed and sold. A 'cozy little boozer' can only realistically survive as a free-house. Villages now have no pub because of chains like Admiral Taverns' approach to the industry.
The Foresters Arms (also formerly an Ad Tav place) was sold on (following its closure by them), before being re-opened under new ownership. Initially it was launched under much publicity as a 'fine dining' establishment. Bear in mind that it was nowhere near as large as the proposed Stockwell development, also has no parking and is not on the main road. Neighbours did not object to the changes and the refurb went ahead entirely on schedule. Despite this, and the relative afluence of the surrounding area, they could not fill it (with the presumed hoards of gastro-pub diners resident in Colchester) and it closed soon after its re-launch. It has since moved more squarely back into the realm of a traditional pub.
This is however, all a matter of record.
What I can reveal though (and indeed, the main reason for my comments), is the source of the rumour. Apparently, and according to a nearby neighbour, some of the site staff working on the build told two people (to their certain knowledge) that the delays and problems they had encountered could mean its being sold on to a "big chain." I believe Both Yates and Weatherspoons were mentioned in relation to this. Personally, I think its just an example of Building Site Hyperbole (AKA nonsense). Could the fate of the Foresters Arms attempt to reinvent itself as a fine dining venue, form an interesting precident?
After reading the article I didn't think that I would feel impelled to comment - archaeology not really being a thing I know very much about. The comments beneath were (as ever) a source of further enlightenment. Discussions on walls, roads and crusader get-up aside, the comment about the failure of the previous incarnation of a pub on this site proved much more interesting. True it has no parking. Neither do other pubs in the town centre. I note that Wetherspoons seems entirely bereft of a car park. True also, that it is not on the main high street. If this is a drawback for a pub then I remain unsure as to why would a restaurant at that same location be such a sure thing. The Stockwell (as was), failed largely due to the increasing demands of Admiral Taverns; the pub-co that has successfully taken over (and ultimately shut) other pubs in Colchester and very many more across East Anglia. I remember being told directly by the last tenants that they were leaving because their rent had been raised and they could just not meet the burden of over priced beer/drinks and the additional rent. The pub was then closed and sold. A 'cozy little boozer' can only realistically survive as a free-house. Villages now have no pub because of chains like Admiral Taverns' approach to the industry. The Foresters Arms (also formerly an Ad Tav place) was sold on (following its closure by them), before being re-opened under new ownership. Initially it was launched under much publicity as a 'fine dining' establishment. Bear in mind that it was nowhere near as large as the proposed Stockwell development, also has no parking and is not on the main road. Neighbours did not object to the changes and the refurb went ahead entirely on schedule. Despite this, and the relative afluence of the surrounding area, they could not fill it (with the presumed hoards of gastro-pub diners resident in Colchester) and it closed soon after its re-launch. It has since moved more squarely back into the realm of a traditional pub. This is however, all a matter of record. What I can reveal though (and indeed, the main reason for my comments), is the source of the rumour. Apparently, and according to a nearby neighbour, some of the site staff working on the build told two people (to their certain knowledge) that the delays and problems they had encountered could mean its being sold on to a "big chain." I believe Both Yates and Weatherspoons were mentioned in relation to this. Personally, I think its just an example of Building Site Hyperbole (AKA nonsense). Could the fate of the Foresters Arms attempt to reinvent itself as a fine dining venue, form an interesting precident? sandgronun64
  • Score: 0

9:34am Wed 1 Aug 12

wellnow says...

so strange to find a roman road and roman remains in what was once the roman capital of briton.a bit like finding bear droppings in a wood.
so strange to find a roman road and roman remains in what was once the roman capital of briton.a bit like finding bear droppings in a wood. wellnow
  • Score: 0

1:02pm Wed 1 Aug 12

romantic says...

sandgronun64 wrote:
After reading the article I didn't think that I would feel impelled to comment - archaeology not really being a thing I know very much about. The comments beneath were (as ever) a source of further enlightenment.
Discussions on walls, roads and crusader get-up aside, the comment about the failure of the previous incarnation of a pub on this site proved much more interesting. True it has no parking. Neither do other pubs in the town centre. I note that Wetherspoons seems entirely bereft of a car park. True also, that it is not on the main high street. If this is a drawback for a pub then I remain unsure as to why would a restaurant at that same location be such a sure thing.
The Stockwell (as was), failed largely due to the increasing demands of Admiral Taverns; the pub-co that has successfully taken over (and ultimately shut) other pubs in Colchester and very many more across East Anglia. I remember being told directly by the last tenants that they were leaving because their rent had been raised and they could just not meet the burden of over priced beer/drinks and the additional rent. The pub was then closed and sold. A 'cozy little boozer' can only realistically survive as a free-house. Villages now have no pub because of chains like Admiral Taverns' approach to the industry.
The Foresters Arms (also formerly an Ad Tav place) was sold on (following its closure by them), before being re-opened under new ownership. Initially it was launched under much publicity as a 'fine dining' establishment. Bear in mind that it was nowhere near as large as the proposed Stockwell development, also has no parking and is not on the main road. Neighbours did not object to the changes and the refurb went ahead entirely on schedule. Despite this, and the relative afluence of the surrounding area, they could not fill it (with the presumed hoards of gastro-pub diners resident in Colchester) and it closed soon after its re-launch. It has since moved more squarely back into the realm of a traditional pub.
This is however, all a matter of record.
What I can reveal though (and indeed, the main reason for my comments), is the source of the rumour. Apparently, and according to a nearby neighbour, some of the site staff working on the build told two people (to their certain knowledge) that the delays and problems they had encountered could mean its being sold on to a "big chain." I believe Both Yates and Weatherspoons were mentioned in relation to this. Personally, I think its just an example of Building Site Hyperbole (AKA nonsense). Could the fate of the Foresters Arms attempt to reinvent itself as a fine dining venue, form an interesting precident?
The Foresters as a gastro-pub failed because the food was not particularly good, and they completely failed to publicise the place. They wanted 20 quid for very mediocre fare tarted up a bit, 6 or 7 quid for a glass of wine.

On paper, it might seem like an affluent area, but none of the people I know who live around there are especially rich. Not in poverty, but not with the cash to eat out especially often.

The key is that you have to get it right, from day one. That´s when lots of curious people will come through the doors, and that first time will set how they view the place, and what they tell their friends. Word of mouth is important, so is stuff like Facebook. If somebody says "I went to xxx and it was great", that goes to all their Facebook friends.

If they really are going to be a "fine dining" place, they will need to publicise like crazy and have exceptional food.

A good example of the right way to do it is Mussi´s. Well run, good food, and not massively expensive. True, they don´t have parking, but they do have the location where lots of people will pass by and see them. Stockwell Arms won´t have that, and I do wonder how many people will wander down there.
[quote][p][bold]sandgronun64[/bold] wrote: After reading the article I didn't think that I would feel impelled to comment - archaeology not really being a thing I know very much about. The comments beneath were (as ever) a source of further enlightenment. Discussions on walls, roads and crusader get-up aside, the comment about the failure of the previous incarnation of a pub on this site proved much more interesting. True it has no parking. Neither do other pubs in the town centre. I note that Wetherspoons seems entirely bereft of a car park. True also, that it is not on the main high street. If this is a drawback for a pub then I remain unsure as to why would a restaurant at that same location be such a sure thing. The Stockwell (as was), failed largely due to the increasing demands of Admiral Taverns; the pub-co that has successfully taken over (and ultimately shut) other pubs in Colchester and very many more across East Anglia. I remember being told directly by the last tenants that they were leaving because their rent had been raised and they could just not meet the burden of over priced beer/drinks and the additional rent. The pub was then closed and sold. A 'cozy little boozer' can only realistically survive as a free-house. Villages now have no pub because of chains like Admiral Taverns' approach to the industry. The Foresters Arms (also formerly an Ad Tav place) was sold on (following its closure by them), before being re-opened under new ownership. Initially it was launched under much publicity as a 'fine dining' establishment. Bear in mind that it was nowhere near as large as the proposed Stockwell development, also has no parking and is not on the main road. Neighbours did not object to the changes and the refurb went ahead entirely on schedule. Despite this, and the relative afluence of the surrounding area, they could not fill it (with the presumed hoards of gastro-pub diners resident in Colchester) and it closed soon after its re-launch. It has since moved more squarely back into the realm of a traditional pub. This is however, all a matter of record. What I can reveal though (and indeed, the main reason for my comments), is the source of the rumour. Apparently, and according to a nearby neighbour, some of the site staff working on the build told two people (to their certain knowledge) that the delays and problems they had encountered could mean its being sold on to a "big chain." I believe Both Yates and Weatherspoons were mentioned in relation to this. Personally, I think its just an example of Building Site Hyperbole (AKA nonsense). Could the fate of the Foresters Arms attempt to reinvent itself as a fine dining venue, form an interesting precident?[/p][/quote]The Foresters as a gastro-pub failed because the food was not particularly good, and they completely failed to publicise the place. They wanted 20 quid for very mediocre fare tarted up a bit, 6 or 7 quid for a glass of wine. On paper, it might seem like an affluent area, but none of the people I know who live around there are especially rich. Not in poverty, but not with the cash to eat out especially often. The key is that you have to get it right, from day one. That´s when lots of curious people will come through the doors, and that first time will set how they view the place, and what they tell their friends. Word of mouth is important, so is stuff like Facebook. If somebody says "I went to xxx and it was great", that goes to all their Facebook friends. If they really are going to be a "fine dining" place, they will need to publicise like crazy and have exceptional food. A good example of the right way to do it is Mussi´s. Well run, good food, and not massively expensive. True, they don´t have parking, but they do have the location where lots of people will pass by and see them. Stockwell Arms won´t have that, and I do wonder how many people will wander down there. romantic
  • Score: 0

6:51pm Wed 1 Aug 12

ShallowRemarks says...

What the paper is not saying is the fact that this Roman Road is unusual in the fact that there was white lines painted down the middle much like roads today, also on this road the lines hadn't faded and no pot holes were present.
What the paper is not saying is the fact that this Roman Road is unusual in the fact that there was white lines painted down the middle much like roads today, also on this road the lines hadn't faded and no pot holes were present. ShallowRemarks
  • Score: 0

9:45pm Thu 2 Aug 12

sandgronun64 says...

Now then, now then.
In relation to the last two comments, a quick but relevant question.
Notwithstanding the (alleged) white lines and pothole free nature of the newly rediscovered Roman road; will its presence improve the availability of parking around the new restaurant?

LOL
Now then, now then. In relation to the last two comments, a quick but relevant question. Notwithstanding the (alleged) white lines and pothole free nature of the newly rediscovered Roman road; will its presence improve the availability of parking around the new restaurant? LOL sandgronun64
  • Score: 0

10:00pm Thu 2 Aug 12

historyman22 says...

Dear oh dear. Such levity.

I actually heard that the re-drawing of the Roman map of Camulodunum will now show the road ending at the top of the hill ...

... right outside Markatus and Sparticus!

Sorry, but I just couldn't resist it.

Any other posts ... for this Forum ... no please stop!

Ridere clara voce!
Dear oh dear. Such levity. I actually heard that the re-drawing of the Roman map of Camulodunum will now show the road ending at the top of the hill ... ... right outside Markatus and Sparticus! Sorry, but I just couldn't resist it. Any other posts ... for this Forum ... no please stop! Ridere clara voce! historyman22
  • Score: 0

10:35pm Fri 3 Aug 12

Johnny T says...

The pub is doomed the town has died the only people making money is the parking mafia now they have another road to clamp you on
The pub is doomed the town has died the only people making money is the parking mafia now they have another road to clamp you on Johnny T
  • Score: 0

11:48pm Fri 3 Aug 12

Boris says...

I know quite a few Wetherspoons pubs, and not one of them has a car park. They expect their customers to get paralytic and be unable to drive home.
.
Car parks are irrelevant to most pubs these days.
I know quite a few Wetherspoons pubs, and not one of them has a car park. They expect their customers to get paralytic and be unable to drive home. . Car parks are irrelevant to most pubs these days. Boris
  • Score: 0

11:54am Sun 5 Aug 12

Sdapeze says...

As Lighthouse Lil in Harwich once observed, 'position is all'. The Stockwell is not well placed for Mr Weatherpoon, with or without car parking.
As Lighthouse Lil in Harwich once observed, 'position is all'. The Stockwell is not well placed for Mr Weatherpoon, with or without car parking. Sdapeze
  • Score: 0

12:40am Mon 6 Aug 12

sandgronun64 says...

A couple of points I'd like to raise, based upon recent comments.

Firstly, Romantic.

Good points and thanks for the info on why the Foresters' Arms failed in its original 'relaunch.' I don't think it particularly negates all my points however.
As for the Foresters not being in a particularly affluent area , this is a bit of a debatable point - one I will not labour here though. I do agree of course, that like many of us, the people living in the surrounding neighbourhood (to the Foresters) have had to do a considerable amount of 'belt tightening' in recent times.

Compare it if you will now to the Dutch Quarter. Whilst it does have its affluent residents, it also has a sizeable community living in Social Housing, and others living in (what are effectively) two-up - two-down's and on considerably lower incomes than the national average. Indeed, when renovated in the late '50's, it was effectively a social (housing) experiment. Believe it or not, it is still possible to rent a period house (with beams etc) as a council tenant. I Should add that these are now of course rare ... and cheap to buy if you've rented one for a long time!

As a resident of the area I love the place though, and feel comfortable with its tremendous (and culturally rich) social diversity.

Is it the place for such a restaurant though? Ultimately, I believe we agree on why this might not be an ideal location, even if we do so for somewhat different reasons.

Second, I refer to the comments from Sdapeze.

Sdapeze, you seem to be very interested in denying that the 'new Stockwell' will ever become a Weatherspoons pub. It is after all, the second time you have voiced this sentiment in this forum.

Why does it matter to you so much?

As I said in an earlier post, I genuinely believe this 'rumour' to be simply the result of a bit of 'mischief' (AKA builder talk). Have you however, got some kind of a vested interest in denying it?

I do find it interesting though, that you quote 'Lighthouse Lil' (a 'lady' known with some notoriety at one time in Harwich as being someone of apparently 'questionable virtue'). If it is position that counts ('position' that is, as 'Lil' would have 'liked') is it to be a place for a fun time?' Moll Flanders was written there after all!

Seriously though, I agree. Position is of course all. Lets stay with lighthouses then shall we? Surely a construction such as a lighthouse is always situated on rocks? Is the enterprise therefore doomed? Surely lighthouses served as a warning for people to stay away?

To close then, I simply ask, how many people work in a Weatherspoons pub?

The owner has indicated that the new restaurant will provide 26 - 34 new jobs (see 10 July 2012 posting on this site). Mmm ... that sounds like a pretty busy place.

Lets see, real ale; food; 'family atmosphere' ... sounds like ... anyone?

Please comment ...

... no really really please do!
A couple of points I'd like to raise, based upon recent comments. Firstly, Romantic. Good points and thanks for the info on why the Foresters' Arms failed in its original 'relaunch.' I don't think it particularly negates all my points however. As for the Foresters not being in a particularly affluent area , this is a bit of a debatable point - one I will not labour here though. I do agree of course, that like many of us, the people living in the surrounding neighbourhood (to the Foresters) have had to do a considerable amount of 'belt tightening' in recent times. Compare it if you will now to the Dutch Quarter. Whilst it does have its affluent residents, it also has a sizeable community living in Social Housing, and others living in (what are effectively) two-up - two-down's and on considerably lower incomes than the national average. Indeed, when renovated in the late '50's, it was effectively a social (housing) experiment. Believe it or not, it is still possible to rent a period house (with beams etc) as a council tenant. I Should add that these are now of course rare ... and cheap to buy if you've rented one for a long time! As a resident of the area I love the place though, and feel comfortable with its tremendous (and culturally rich) social diversity. Is it the place for such a restaurant though? Ultimately, I believe we agree on why this might not be an ideal location, even if we do so for somewhat different reasons. Second, I refer to the comments from Sdapeze. Sdapeze, you seem to be very interested in denying that the 'new Stockwell' will ever become a Weatherspoons pub. It is after all, the second time you have voiced this sentiment in this forum. Why does it matter to you so much? As I said in an earlier post, I genuinely believe this 'rumour' to be simply the result of a bit of 'mischief' (AKA builder talk). Have you however, got some kind of a vested interest in denying it? I do find it interesting though, that you quote 'Lighthouse Lil' (a 'lady' known with some notoriety at one time in Harwich as being someone of apparently 'questionable virtue'). If it is position that counts ('position' that is, as 'Lil' would have 'liked') is it to be a place for a fun time?' Moll Flanders was written there after all! Seriously though, I agree. Position is of course all. Lets stay with lighthouses then shall we? Surely a construction such as a lighthouse is always situated on rocks? Is the enterprise therefore doomed? Surely lighthouses served as a warning for people to stay away? To close then, I simply ask, how many people work in a Weatherspoons pub? The owner has indicated that the new restaurant will provide 26 - 34 new jobs (see 10 July 2012 posting on this site). Mmm ... that sounds like a pretty busy place. Lets see, real ale; food; 'family atmosphere' ... sounds like ... anyone? Please comment ... ... no really really please do! sandgronun64
  • Score: 0

7:37am Mon 6 Aug 12

Longinus says...

Having met the chap responsible for restoring the place and having spent time having a good chat to him about the history of the building, I'm in no doubt he's got a savvy head on his shoulders and will market the place to death. Working in the local tourist industry we send a lot of visitors to wander the lanes of the Dutch Quarter so they will naturally find the place, one hopes.
Having met the chap responsible for restoring the place and having spent time having a good chat to him about the history of the building, I'm in no doubt he's got a savvy head on his shoulders and will market the place to death. Working in the local tourist industry we send a lot of visitors to wander the lanes of the Dutch Quarter so they will naturally find the place, one hopes. Longinus
  • Score: 0

9:26am Mon 6 Aug 12

Sdapeze says...

I wish the Stockwell Arms all the very best for the future. I would love to see it open again as a pub. But as a restaurant, the parallel with the Foresters is obvious. Position is all.
I wish the Stockwell Arms all the very best for the future. I would love to see it open again as a pub. But as a restaurant, the parallel with the Foresters is obvious. Position is all. Sdapeze
  • Score: 0

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