New bus station to open next month (From Gazette)

This is absolutely ludicrous, and I am a bus driver!

All they have done is cut away 6 feet of pavement to widen the road and they have installed 4 raised curbs. Which it already had. So that's 4 bus stops to contend with the shutting of queen st bus depot, which in my books will cause utter chaos and gridlock the southway and st bots way more than it already is.

Add to this the timing of the event and I think the council should be a contender for the stupidest council in Britain.

This is happening at a time when thousands of people will be doing there Xmas shopping and colchester retail will suffer massively. Mark my words!!!!

Pathetic rubbish from a pathetic council. No more than a bus stop, for all their clap-trap.

Why do the insist on calling it THE NEW BUS STATION its not, its bus stops. If they are classing multi bus stops as bus stations then we have got a bus station in St Johns Street, Crouch Street, Head Street and two in High Street meaning that as well as the oldest recorded town we are the town with the most bus stations. They could even put the on the welcome to Colchester signs

Everyone knows it is not going to work. And now this is confirmed by a bus driver.
When they tried out this crackbrained scheme at the football stadium car park, a year ago, the drivers and the bus company managers all agreed it would never work. They tweaked a few details and then said it would work now, and of course all bus company staff were told to keep stumm.
But anyone can see it cannot work. There will be massive traffic jams which will affect the whole town centre.
It is not true that the bus station land has to be given to the primary school, which never used the bit of land that was taken by the VAF. The head teacher said she didn't want the land. The whole saga is one of complete ineptitude by CBC and ECC together. I'd like to say it is malevolence but it isn't, they are not wicked people. They, and I mean councillors and council officers alike, at both CBC and ECC, are just utterly incapable of performing their elementary duty of serving the people of north east Essex.

The old see dog wrote:
Why do the insist on calling it THE NEW BUS STATION its not, its bus stops. If they are classing multi bus stops as bus stations then we have got a bus station in St Johns Street, Crouch Street, Head Street and two in High Street meaning that as well as the oldest recorded town we are the town with the most bus stations. They could even put the on the welcome to Colchester signs

Good point, old see dog. And why stop there? Every bus stop in Colchester, as well as in the smaller towns and villages, is also a bus station. So, in Lyn Barton's terms, we have literally hundreds of bus stations in this mediocre little district of ours.

From the point of view of the elderly, who apart from school children are the main bus users, it's a long way from the Town Centre proper to the new "Bus Station".
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I have always maintained that all and any councillors should spend the first winter of their elected term riding buses and trains, leaving their cars securely locked in their garages. In addition, they should be ordered to make all journeys loaded with essential shopping!
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Of course some councillors will still just heave a sigh of relief when their winter stint is over, and go back to their blinkered lives, but some could just be won over to the views and problems of the actual bus users?

the john ward of all bus stations.

I was telling my five year old son about this when we walked by it the other day. He looked at the road, shook his head and said "Well that is very silly!!"
out the mouth of babes..:)

"...... that site must be given to St Thomas More’s Primary School, to be used as a playing field. "


Which will then be declared surplus to requirements and Pete Seeger being invited to perform a well known number from 1963;)

anybody know where the web site is to book yourself a seat at the bus station?
I can imagine it will be overflowing when the first 6 people have sat down and want to guarantee my place.

And when it all works perfectly well you can all shut up at last.

On the plus side the Bingo Queens can get home safely without having to push their zimmer frames to far....unlike the poor shoppers who have to navigate from the "bus station" all the way to High Street,avoiding Queen Street unless you have your flak jacket on.

Hampton23 wrote:
On the plus side the Bingo Queens can get home safely without having to push their zimmer frames to far....unlike the poor shoppers who have to navigate from the "bus station" all the way to High Street,avoiding Queen Street unless you have your flak jacket on.

Funny that :)

shyprincess wrote:
I was telling my five year old son about this when we walked by it the other day. He looked at the road, shook his head and said "Well that is very silly!!"
out the mouth of babes..:)

That is the best comment yet. Thanks, shyprincess, for sharing it with us.

Reginald47 wrote:
And when it all works perfectly well you can all shut up at last.

Dream on, Reggie. Is your real name Lyn Barton by any chance?

The council have no clue they are stupid. £2 million what a joke for osbourne street bus problems. i rather flatten the whole bus station in queen street. build it from the beginning. i would put the tourist board in there, a new cafe, toilets, lockers, ticket office for coach tours and other travel. proper bus stops with a new lay out which would make it easier for people to see what stand their bus is at. new lighting, CCTV so its monitored 24/7

For goodness sake you lot. Listen to yerselves. The current bus station is a glorified bus garage. It is an eyesore. All you need is a bus, somewhere to wait for a bus and toilets. Why do you keep going on about this? Buses can lay up anywhere. Only buses that are actually doing their job should be at the new location. Get these horrible smelly polluting things outside the town walls so that we can all enjoy a better shopping experience. You have lost the cause. Firstsite has won. Grow up and get used to it, why don't you?

So sdapeze, you evidently don't like buses. They are however a necessity to many.

Most people do like art, although opinions on what art actually is, vary wildly.

What a bus, or bus station is, tends (mostly) to be much easier to agree upon!

For those for whom buses are a necessity, art, is not utmost on their mind when they need to get to work.

Along with art, design is also important but rather than being for its own sake, it embraces artistic flair, with the absolute necessity of functionality.

So, when you say "...Firstsite has won.", presumably this is a triumph of art over sensibility in design. The new "Bus Station" is a street! Colchester has several such 'Bus Stations' already!

Your habit of assuming that people who disagree with you are childish is once again, another example of your own churlish defence of this £28,000,000 money pit.

As ever, the VAF's defenders attack those that disagree, by making claims or accusations alluding to what they (the VAF Defenders) view as a lack of intelligence or vision within the opposition; usually claiming that any concerns raised lack cogency.

Slagging off the opposition will not in itself strengthen your own arguements, nor will it justify the ongoing yearly cost - £1.24 Million last year!

Oh well, I'm just off now to catch a giant bronze finger to work!

LOL

Reginald47 wrote:
And when it all works perfectly well you can all shut up at last.

At last, we have a bus station expert in our midst. So come on bus station expert tell how this is going to work and ease traffic around that quarter with ALL buses having to turn right that come down St Botophs Street plus the cars that want to access the car parks ????

Another thing as quoted "The new bus station is Situated between Osborne Street and Stanwell Street". If you go along Osborne Street the first turning left is Stanwell Street, there is no inbertween. And they should have the opening day on November 5th and it could go with a bang.

sandgronun64 the best put down of sdapeze I've seen so far. Also to the old see dog a good put down of Reginald47 to. So I just had to comment, even after a long time

Though your comment about the bronze finger. I did see that as well, as I was passing through the square, on what once the East Hill entrance of the bus station. Though I think it was a giant hand with outreaching fingers. Pity there wasn't a giant till to go with it, even if what is said about sarcasm.

But seriously the comment about " Firstsite has won". I am afraid to say this whole issue has been allowed to cause so much avoidable and unnecessary 'them and us' politics that it will be difficult for anyone else to do something else. Even if that might be of far greater benefit to our town, or city as some would have it. So we are all losers in that sense, but some even more so. Look how the city status bid and the city of culture bid were and are seen as doing nothing to address more pressing and important issues as this one.

So the issue is now is not what has happened and what we would've like to not have happened. But how do we convince our so called representatives and Reginald47 that Osbourne St. cannot and will not work, that the councillorsw need to put aside their pride and vanity and commit to realocating the Britannia car park for use as a proper off road bus station. As in the only traffic there being buses

The old see dog wrote:

Reginald47 wrote:
And when it all works perfectly well you can all shut up at last.

At last, we have a bus station expert in our midst. So come on bus station expert tell how this is going to work and ease traffic around that quarter with ALL buses having to turn right that come down St Botophs Street plus the cars that want to access the car parks ????

Why do they all need to turn right? Surely buses don't have to use the bus park. None of the Network Colchester buses use the current one so why will they need to use the new one?

sandgronun64 wrote:
So sdapeze, you evidently don't like buses. They are however a necessity to many.

Most people do like art, although opinions on what art actually is, vary wildly.

What a bus, or bus station is, tends (mostly) to be much easier to agree upon!

For those for whom buses are a necessity, art, is not utmost on their mind when they need to get to work.

Along with art, design is also important but rather than being for its own sake, it embraces artistic flair, with the absolute necessity of functionality.

So, when you say "...Firstsite has won.", presumably this is a triumph of art over sensibility in design. The new "Bus Station" is a street! Colchester has several such 'Bus Stations' already!

Your habit of assuming that people who disagree with you are childish is once again, another example of your own churlish defence of this £28,000,000 money pit.

As ever, the VAF's defenders attack those that disagree, by making claims or accusations alluding to what they (the VAF Defenders) view as a lack of intelligence or vision within the opposition; usually claiming that any concerns raised lack cogency.

Slagging off the opposition will not in itself strengthen your own arguements, nor will it justify the ongoing yearly cost - £1.24 Million last year!

Oh well, I'm just off now to catch a giant bronze finger to work!

LOL

What an excellent riposte. It does seem the case that the most vehement supporters of the VAF are those that have the potential for either commercial or personal gains from the public funds lavished on this architectural monstrosity. The entire project has been an abject failure from start to finish. We can only hope that someone sees sense soon and pulls the plug on this fiasco that has tarnished the town's reputation.

TheCaptain wrote:

The old see dog wrote:

Reginald47 wrote:
And when it all works perfectly well you can all shut up at last.

At last, we have a bus station expert in our midst. So come on bus station expert tell how this is going to work and ease traffic around that quarter with ALL buses having to turn right that come down St Botophs Street plus the cars that want to access the car parks ????

Why do they all need to turn right? Surely buses don't have to use the bus park. None of the Network Colchester buses use the current one so why will they need to use the new one?

True, but then they would still need to stop at the top of Queen Street, which could actually end up being more of a crunch-point than the new place.

The stopping of other traffic in the High St will help to some extent, but I can still see times when buses will be backed up down Queen St waiting to get into the new super-stop.

But maybe Reginald47 knows better, let´s ee in a few weeks´time.

I'd hazard a guess and say few, if any, of you actually use the current Queen Street bus station or i'm sure you'd be singing a much different tune.

Last time I checked (yesterday) it was a complete dump patrolled by junkies, hobos and alcoholics. A disgusting polluted wasteland which few wish to ever visit. It is full of litter and truly an eyesore.

Not only is it disgusting to visit, it is a real hike to get there in the first place! All the way out on the edge of the town centre as opposed to a short hop from Lion Walk down through Vineyard St car park to the new place.

You're all frothing at the mouth, mourning the loss of something that should have been demolished years ago. Times change, sometimes it is for the better - believe it or not.

it woulod be a shame if the hidden kiosk idea dies with the area though. As far as I know that has inspired two local groups to go on and open their own businesses. Hopefully the current occupants will as well.

Firstsite is there. It exists. It has therefore won the argument. It forms a part of Colchester's cultural future and prestige. Buses will still come and go. Where's the problem? It amazes me how you dinosaurs can keep defending the now defunct bus station. Nobody is taking the bus system away. What they are doing is taking away an eyesore that spoils our town. This has nothing to do with art. This has everything to do with making Colchester a better place to visit. I congratulate the council on what it is doing. If only it had the balls to pedestrianise our town as well.

The real question is what is the purpose of a bus station and is it really needed?

The answer to the first question (and I am sure there are more) is that it should provide an easy accessible terminus where people can interchange between buses and can board buses to where they need to go.

Now as has been mentioned above Network Colchester buses do not use the current bus station, so if you need to change onto or board one of those the current bus station is useless. Also a number of First routes do not touch the bus station i.e. 65 between Stanway and Highwoods (the reverse journey does) so once again the bus station is no use to a lot of users. It's location is poor: too far from a lot of the shops. It is ideally located if you want to the visit the VAF.

So the answer to the second question is that we do not really need a bus station, it is a thing of a bygone romantic age, where kids could play in the street, you could buy a pint for 2p and Sundays were Sundays. Osborne Street (pre upgrade to bus station), Head Street and the High Street already provide good interchanges between routes, close to the shops, restaurants and bars.

Just as a side note (and I am indifferent about the VAF) I was talking to a colleague the other day in the office and he said he bought the family from Cheltenham to Colchester over the summer and visited the VAF which they enjoyed, he followed that up with 'what a shame it's back drop was a bus station and an awful one at that, it needs to be landscaped".

Can we just get this straight.

It will not be a bus station. And shouldn't be called one.

I agree the existing site is an eyesore but it houses so many buses. Not just first buses. Headinghams. Chambers. Network colchester. We all use it and without this space for all these buses to stand or be stationary while the relevant change overs etc take place I just don't see where all these buses will fit in with the new system.

Also, do network colchester not use the current bus station? I think you'll find we do. The 50. The 133 use it every day and every hour! on a sunday we run almost every route that uses the hus station too! Makes me laugh reading comments saying our company doesn't use something it plainly does and often!

i would like to know why this has cost £2 million???

when the roads in and around monkwick are beyond bad, i mean they are just terrible, monkwick avenue and queen elizabeth way are dangerous, and have been for years! yes years! Its just a matter of time until every bus driver will have chronic back pain from the constant bumps and potholes.

the council clearly do not have the money for these essential repairs which in my opinion have been needed for excess of the last 5 years if not beyond, unyet they find the money for non essential crap like the art centre?

you couldnt make it up

bullybob says...
"Not only is it disgusting to visit, it is a real hike to get there in the first place! All the way out on the edge of the town centre as opposed to a short hop from Lion Walk down through Vineyard St car park to the new place"

. So. the new/old bus stops in Osborne Street is not on the edge of town ? There are a lot of old folk who do their shopping in Sainsburys, they go to town by bus, they go home by bus. Now they will have to walk three or four times the distance to their buses, up hill and down instead of just crossing the road.

wearebeingwatched says...
"Just as a side note (and I am indifferent about the VAF) I was talking to a colleague the other day in the office and he said he bought the family from Cheltenham to Colchester over the summer and visited the VAF which they enjoyed, he followed that up with 'what a shame it's back drop was a bus station and an awful one at that, it needs to be landscaped".”.....

That is going to be done, if you can call even more flats with overflowing bin sheds land scaping, thats going to look good from the VAF!

Sdapeze says...
"Firstsite is there. It exists. It has therefore won the argument. It forms a part of Colchester's cultural future and prestige".
OK so its there and it exists, When it was started they said it would have a 25 year life span, from the start to now 10 years gone only 15 left. Whats going to happen when the copper lustre has dulled and the rain is coming in leaving streaks down the walls and it looks like a derelict warehouse and nobody goes there? Will it still form a part of Colchester's cultural future and prestige?

Sdapeze wrote:
Firstsite is there. It exists. It has therefore won the argument. It forms a part of Colchester's cultural future and prestige. Buses will still come and go. Where's the problem? It amazes me how you dinosaurs can keep defending the now defunct bus station. Nobody is taking the bus system away. What they are doing is taking away an eyesore that spoils our town. This has nothing to do with art. This has everything to do with making Colchester a better place to visit. I congratulate the council on what it is doing. If only it had the balls to pedestrianise our town as well.

There you go again with the put-downs sdapeze . You just couldn’t resist that little jibe i.e. "...you dinosaurs ...".

Stop trying to cover the weakness of your argument (and limited extent of your 'popular support') by making derisory comments about those that don't agree with you!

When you use the emotive term ‘dinosaur,’ to what do you allude? Age? I hope not. I am younger than you, so the term does not apply. I know this to be the case as I have seen your picture on your website. That in itself is no reason to deride you though.

If you mean dinosaur in an evolutionary sense, it is worth remembering that the Dinosaurs dominated this planet between the Late Triassic period (235 million years ago) until 65 million years ago. That is approximately 170 million years - an impressive record by any reckoning. The only reason we came along was because they were wiped out. We (humans) didn’t out-compete them! I would say then, that the description dinosaur must therefore be nothing short of a huge compliment to a successful and competitive group of individuals (i.e. those you seek to deride).

Something tells me that you didn’t mean it as a compliment though!

I do have to agree with you nonetheless, when you say that “This has nothing to do with art.”

Nothing about either the bus station (AKA a town centre street) nor the VAF, seems to be remotely connected with art. Unless that is, it is the 'art' of pushing through projects that nobody wants but still have to pay for!

Do respond. I am sure it will be fascinating!

sandgronun64 wrote:

Sdapeze wrote:
Firstsite is there. It exists. It has therefore won the argument. It forms a part of Colchester's cultural future and prestige. Buses will still come and go. Where's the problem? It amazes me how you dinosaurs can keep defending the now defunct bus station. Nobody is taking the bus system away. What they are doing is taking away an eyesore that spoils our town. This has nothing to do with art. This has everything to do with making Colchester a better place to visit. I congratulate the council on what it is doing. If only it had the balls to pedestrianise our town as well.

There you go again with the put-downs sdapeze . You just couldn’t resist that little jibe i.e. "...you dinosaurs ...".

Stop trying to cover the weakness of your argument (and limited extent of your 'popular support') by making derisory comments about those that don't agree with you!

When you use the emotive term ‘dinosaur,’ to what do you allude? Age? I hope not. I am younger than you, so the term does not apply. I know this to be the case as I have seen your picture on your website. That in itself is no reason to deride you though.

If you mean dinosaur in an evolutionary sense, it is worth remembering that the Dinosaurs dominated this planet between the Late Triassic period (235 million years ago) until 65 million years ago. That is approximately 170 million years - an impressive record by any reckoning. The only reason we came along was because they were wiped out. We (humans) didn’t out-compete them! I would say then, that the description dinosaur must therefore be nothing short of a huge compliment to a successful and competitive group of individuals (i.e. those you seek to deride).

Something tells me that you didn’t mean it as a compliment though!

I do have to agree with you nonetheless, when you say that “This has nothing to do with art.”

Nothing about either the bus station (AKA a town centre street) nor the VAF, seems to be remotely connected with art. Unless that is, it is the 'art' of pushing through projects that nobody wants but still have to pay for!

Do respond. I am sure it will be fascinating!

sandgronun64, I think you are fairly new on these threads. Please understand that Sdapeze has been banging on for years about the bus station and whenever there is a story about it, he trots out his usual drivel to wind us all up. Don't take him too seriously. He is in fact very sound on some topics, but he has not got a clue about public transport, nor about culture. Apart from that he is one of the most assiduous and interesting contributors on here.

I wonder what plan B might be?

Whether or not my input on this subject is the usual drivel that I come out with, it is good to discuss this subject and not to let the Firstsite detractors get it all their own way. I live in Fordham where buses are few and far between, so I am no expert on public transport. My interest is in Colchester as a visitor destination; part of which is public transport provision. I see the old bus station as an eyesore and in need of removal to someplace else. I also saw it as a layover for buses that were not in service, more than a vibrant hub of public transport activity. Can somebody please tell me why we need a place within the town walls for buses to park up awaiting action, belching out their filthy fumes, rather than for them to go to a remote and out of sight, parking area? Then tell me why the Osborne Street hub does not serve bus passengers just as well as the old bus station? So I shall continue to be of the opinion that this is a case of a few old dinosaurs rebelling against change for the good of Colchester.

So, confirmation that the Dinosaur comment is ageist then?

Oh, and for reference, I live (well) within the (Roman) city walls and frequently use buses.

The question of the Old Bus Station not being fit for purpose, does not mean that a better one is not needed. The simple fact is, that the alternative, as provided in Osbourne Street, is also unfit for the purpose.

What was really needed was an integrated transport hub, such as you find the world over (Sydney, Melbourne, Cape Town, New York etc.,) where people getting off trains have somewhere to wait for connecting buses and equally, those getting to the station have somewhere to wait for trains. Liverpool Street includes a tube station for example. Chelmsford has a bus tation opposite the Railway station, that includes retail units and facilities. Osbourne street is just that - a street!

There is space next to the existing town station to achieve the realisation of such an integrated transport centre, but not the will to go ahead. It also empties onto a major road, thereby linking in with other nearby towns out to the coast, not served by rail as it is, and the provision of a low cost, regular, Electric or low polluting, circular shuttle route could enable transport to/from the station to the town centre.

My opposition to the bus arrangements such as they are is that it makes no sense in its current nor proposed form.

Talk of visitors and Hotels is pointless, unless we provide an easy, effective and rapid transport system to get visitors into the town.

Current plans do not achieve this and just favour increased car travel - something to which I am led to believe that sdapeze (and many others) are opposed to.

Not a bad evolutuiionary step for a dinosaur?

What is your proposed solution?
Toadying to the Council once again?

And for the record that's "evolutionary step"

Bravo, Sandgronun64, bravo. You about said how I was going to reply to Sdapeze.

But I find his interest in Colchester as a tourist destination pertinent. I've heard on good authority when the lay over spaces for coaches at the bus station were lost, no excursion coaches from the cruise ships at Harwich come any more. These all go to Cambridge instead. So surly and ironically Firstsite loses out, along with the castle. Then to say nothing of the shops

Sdapeze, why is it ok for the buses to "belch out their filthy fumes" in a remote area (presumably you don't mean the Sahara Desert?) rather than on the edge of Town?
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Do you mean somewhere like Magdalen St or East Bay, or well along the Mersea Road? I do hope you don't mean it to be on the way to Mile End!! That would bring on a few hundred responses.
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It's the "filthy fumes" if any that need to be dealt with, not the siting of the buses emitting them. Get a grip on the subject.

An excellent and lucid response from the dinosaur Mr Sandgron. This is the discussion that is needed. I simply use the word as reference to somebody who lives in the past and is resistant to change. I know that I dress up in historic clothing, but that's different. Boris and I have agreed before that the bus station, hub, whatever you want to call it, should be at St Botolph's station. But the council had other ideas for that and built their underused magistrates court there instead. I would much prefer that bus and train should be together. Osborne Street is not ideal but I think that when the development of that general area finally happens, it will be seen to be a good location. An open area is needed for buses not in service. I don't care where it is but it should be somewhere that does not affect people's quality of life, as it does now. North Station, Cuckoo Farm, Tollgate. I don't care. What I want is an end to unnecessary diesel fumes in the town centre. In fact I want an end to all vehicle fumes in the town centre. It will come I hope. Correctly done, electric buses could handle all journeys into the town centre with a total ban on cars and motorcycles, taxis, etc. So come on then, is Sandgron another of Anna's 'noms de plume'?

Sdapeze sounds very very much like David Mills of Horrocks Close, he wants to get rid of anything in Colchester that is over 50 years old and any thing with an engine on wheels, Is he ? No he cant be can he ? Surly not ? But then maybe, no but yea but!

Sdapeze wrote:
Firstsite is there. It exists. It has therefore won the argument. It forms a part of Colchester's cultural future and prestige. Buses will still come and go. Where's the problem? It amazes me how you dinosaurs can keep defending the now defunct bus station. Nobody is taking the bus system away. What they are doing is taking away an eyesore that spoils our town. This has nothing to do with art. This has everything to do with making Colchester a better place to visit. I congratulate the council on what it is doing. If only it had the balls to pedestrianise our town as well.

By the way according to Sdapeze, we dinosaurs are all refered to as "curmudgeonly philistines" on the other thread to this story, he must have seen that on the wall in the VAF somewhere maybe it the toilets.

A few selective comments.
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See dog 10.30 pm Friday. The Gazette has published photos of Sdapeze (passim) and of David Mills (recently). They are different. And if you compare their published output, you can see that Sdapeze is far more intelligent. Also, Sdapeze does not ashare Mr Mills's predilection for bashing Bob Russell.
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To Sdapeze 6.16 pm Friday, and previously. If a bus has to lay over for an hour, where is the advantage in making it drive all the way out to the fringe of town, and then back in again, polluting the air and adding to traffic congestion?
Also, yes, the St Botolph's (Town) station car park could have made a good substitute bus station, but the idiotic decision on the magistrates court put paid to that. But the Britannia Car Park will do just as well, in fact it is a lot bigger so there would be room for all the buses to lay over without the need for pointless empty journeys to remote parking places such as you suggest. So that is what we have to go for. The entrance is narrow but CBC owns the buildings which would need demolition to widen the access.
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To rhetoric 3.54 pm Friday. Are you not aware that all buses will be electric by 2009? That is what the last Tory leader of the council, Robert Davidson, told us in 2005.
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To Edmund, 1.22 pm Friday. Yes, it is true that the day tripper coachloads from Germany and Holland no longer come to Colchester. They used to come in their droves because there was space for their coaches in the bus station before the VAF was built.
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To sandgronun 12.53 pm Friday. I agree with much of what you say, but Colchester is not suitable for an integrated rail/bus transport hub. North Station is too far out, and Town Station is too insignificant. Frequent buses between North Station and the town centre are the answer, and we have those.
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To Sdapeze 12.10 pm Friday. Osborne Street will not work because the space is too small for the number of buses, and because private car access will still be allowed to two large car parks.
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To checkout 11.43 am Friday. Plan B is for CBC and ECC to observe the gridlock resulting from the paralysed area around Osborne Street and to declare that everything is working just fine. Just like 2006, when 1040 people out of 1080 said leave the bus station as it was, and CBC declared that the majority wanted the VAF to be built on it. George Orwell called it "doublethink" and "doublespeak" and it is routine here in Colchester.

There is something I would like to say to all you car/bike owners: for those of us without such transport life is fairly hellish at times, and we are the ones who need and support the bus system.
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As we are in the main an older group in the population, the situation does not improve for us, and our need becomes greater. We don't need to be metaphorically pushed from pillar to post, and we DO KNOW what we need to be safe and comfortable. Obviously in the greater scheme of things we don't matter at all. We are redundant and should shut up and die.
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As we are not polluting the atmosphere ourselves by driving from our front garden to wherever we wish to go, and using a vehicle which eventually has to be disposed of, one would think we were fairly environmentally friendly? Well, not so, we are a nuisance wherever and whenever we want to have our buses calling in because of the obsolete design of such vehicles.
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If fuel rationing kicked in for whatever reason, and everyone had to use the bus system, I can see that the tune would change overnight!
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Yes, we'd love to have those fabled electric buses. In the meantime, it's probably not the old buses that completely wreck the atmosphere, but the sheer number of private cars/ bikes that cram into the Town area.
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There will be the moans of those who have to get to work! In t'old days when men were men etc and petrol was rationed/money short anyway, everyone managed very well with buses and pedal bikes! That did include those who needed to get to the station to commute to London.
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Workers and schoolchildren alike came into Colchester from Clacton, Harwich and so on during and after the War, using the old Eastern National and other bus systems as well as the trains. There wasn't a lot in their way during their long routes, cars being a rarity. Of course we aren't going to change back in the foreseeable future, if at all, humans being what they are and the supermarkets etc often being well out of Town and warm cars beckoning on a cold morning.
.
There's not much in the above posts to indicate any empathy with the real, regular bus users.

But the buses will keep running. There will be no change in the service. What are you lot all going on about? As far as I can see, all this chatter is aimed at backhand swipes at the new arts building. I didn't want the thing either but now we have it, can we please move on and get used to it. Who knows, some day, we may all be proud of it? I already realise that it is a superb facility and one, of which, Colchester should be proud.

Sdapeze wrote:
But the buses will keep running. There will be no change in the service. What are you lot all going on about? As far as I can see, all this chatter is aimed at backhand swipes at the new arts building. I didn't want the thing either but now we have it, can we please move on and get used to it. Who knows, some day, we may all be proud of it? I already realise that it is a superb facility and one, of which, Colchester should be proud.

Well we better get a move on then because as I said before its only got 15 years left of its life span and then some bright spark new broom in council will say "I know lets pull that old rust heap down and put a nice new bus station there with a multi-story carpark over the top, the buses can all go in from the top of East Hill an come out into Queen Street"

Sdapeze wrote:
But the buses will keep running. There will be no change in the service. What are you lot all going on about? As far as I can see, all this chatter is aimed at backhand swipes at the new arts building. I didn't want the thing either but now we have it, can we please move on and get used to it. Who knows, some day, we may all be proud of it? I already realise that it is a superb facility and one, of which, Colchester should be proud.

Agree with you that now the VAF is here, we should make the best of it. If its closure was announced, I'd oppose it as a cut. But are we actually making the best of it?

Other than the odd exception, the exhibits on display have been poor. The opening exhibition - which you'd think they would have wanted to make memorable - just looked like it had been thrown together at the last minute, complete with all those rather bizarre family photographs. At the moment the most impressive thing about it has been the building itself, not its contents.

Clearly the bus station is going, and a few bus stops will not be an adequate replacement. It will lead to a poorer public transport service, with less routes going through a central hub, making changing buses a nightmare, and will certainly not tempt anybody to leave the car at home. So more congestion, and more pollution, which I thought you wanted to see less of?

Sandgrounun makes much sense, so the idea that's me is complimentary. But no, still using only the second user name I chose for this site, after changing it from Anna (which you could do back then).

bullybob wrote:
I'd hazard a guess and say few, if any, of you actually use the current Queen Street bus station or i'm sure you'd be singing a much different tune.

Last time I checked (yesterday) it was a complete dump patrolled by junkies, hobos and alcoholics. A disgusting polluted wasteland which few wish to ever visit. It is full of litter and truly an eyesore.

Not only is it disgusting to visit, it is a real hike to get there in the first place! All the way out on the edge of the town centre as opposed to a short hop from Lion Walk down through Vineyard St car park to the new place.

You're all frothing at the mouth, mourning the loss of something that should have been demolished years ago. Times change, sometimes it is for the better - believe it or not.

I had to laugh at this. As somebody who until recently used it every morning, I never ever saw any 'junkies, hobos and alcoholics' during the morning rush hour. While I have seen those who could be described in that manner at other times, this is a problem I see all over the town centre. Colchester seems to have a larger homelessness problem than it should for a town of its size. I can only conclude this is due to being a military town. Sadly, ex service people are so often ill equipped for the outside world.

Sdapeze wrote:
An excellent and lucid response from the dinosaur Mr Sandgron. This is the discussion that is needed. I simply use the word as reference to somebody who lives in the past and is resistant to change. I know that I dress up in historic clothing, but that's different. Boris and I have agreed before that the bus station, hub, whatever you want to call it, should be at St Botolph's station. But the council had other ideas for that and built their underused magistrates court there instead. I would much prefer that bus and train should be together. Osborne Street is not ideal but I think that when the development of that general area finally happens, it will be seen to be a good location. An open area is needed for buses not in service. I don't care where it is but it should be somewhere that does not affect people's quality of life, as it does now. North Station, Cuckoo Farm, Tollgate. I don't care. What I want is an end to unnecessary diesel fumes in the town centre. In fact I want an end to all vehicle fumes in the town centre. It will come I hope. Correctly done, electric buses could handle all journeys into the town centre with a total ban on cars and motorcycles, taxis, etc. So come on then, is Sandgron another of Anna's 'noms de plume'?

Sdapeze who is living in the past then?
St Botolphs Station? I think you mean Colchester Town station!

PROOFREADER wrote:

Sdapeze wrote:
An excellent and lucid response from the dinosaur Mr Sandgron. This is the discussion that is needed. I simply use the word as reference to somebody who lives in the past and is resistant to change. I know that I dress up in historic clothing, but that's different. Boris and I have agreed before that the bus station, hub, whatever you want to call it, should be at St Botolph's station. But the council had other ideas for that and built their underused magistrates court there instead. I would much prefer that bus and train should be together. Osborne Street is not ideal but I think that when the development of that general area finally happens, it will be seen to be a good location. An open area is needed for buses not in service. I don't care where it is but it should be somewhere that does not affect people's quality of life, as it does now. North Station, Cuckoo Farm, Tollgate. I don't care. What I want is an end to unnecessary diesel fumes in the town centre. In fact I want an end to all vehicle fumes in the town centre. It will come I hope. Correctly done, electric buses could handle all journeys into the town centre with a total ban on cars and motorcycles, taxis, etc. So come on then, is Sandgron another of Anna's 'noms de plume'?

Sdapeze who is living in the past then?
St Botolphs Station? I think you mean Colchester Town station!

There is so much wrong with Sdapeze's argument, why not feed on one of the edible crumbs? Why go with such a boring point? So what Sdapeze calls Town station by its old name? As ever, you're proving yourself to be one of the most pointless contributors to this website.

6079 Smith W wrote:

PROOFREADER wrote:

Sdapeze wrote:
An excellent and lucid response from the dinosaur Mr Sandgron. This is the discussion that is needed. I simply use the word as reference to somebody who lives in the past and is resistant to change. I know that I dress up in historic clothing, but that's different. Boris and I have agreed before that the bus station, hub, whatever you want to call it, should be at St Botolph's station. But the council had other ideas for that and built their underused magistrates court there instead. I would much prefer that bus and train should be together. Osborne Street is not ideal but I think that when the development of that general area finally happens, it will be seen to be a good location. An open area is needed for buses not in service. I don't care where it is but it should be somewhere that does not affect people's quality of life, as it does now. North Station, Cuckoo Farm, Tollgate. I don't care. What I want is an end to unnecessary diesel fumes in the town centre. In fact I want an end to all vehicle fumes in the town centre. It will come I hope. Correctly done, electric buses could handle all journeys into the town centre with a total ban on cars and motorcycles, taxis, etc. So come on then, is Sandgron another of Anna's 'noms de plume'?

Sdapeze who is living in the past then?
St Botolphs Station? I think you mean Colchester Town station!

There is so much wrong with Sdapeze's argument, why not feed on one of the edible crumbs? Why go with such a boring point? So what Sdapeze calls Town station by its old name? As ever, you're proving yourself to be one of the most pointless contributors to this website.

People who have only moved to Colchester in recent years will have never heard of St Botolphs station and not know what Sdapeze is talking about. Now that the new court house has been built it is not possible to have a bus station next to Colchester Town Station! Sdapeze is talking nonsense, not everyone who needs to visit the town centre is fit and healthy and can walk long distances so being able to off a bus at a stop close to where they need to go is vital. As is allowing taxis in the town centre.

People who have only moved to Colchester in recent years will have never heard of St Botolphs station and not know what Sdapeze is talking about. Now that the new court house has been built it is not possible to have a bus station next to Colchester Town Station! Sdapeze is talking nonsense, not everyone who needs to visit the town centre is fit and healthy and can walk long distances so being able to off a bus at a stop close to where they need to go is vital. As is allowing taxis in the town centre.

I mean't get off a bus not off a bus.

I mean't get off a bus not off a bus.

network driver wrote:
Can we just get this straight.

It will not be a bus station. And shouldn't be called one.

I agree the existing site is an eyesore but it houses so many buses. Not just first buses. Headinghams. Chambers. Network colchester. We all use it and without this space for all these buses to stand or be stationary while the relevant change overs etc take place I just don't see where all these buses will fit in with the new system.

Also, do network colchester not use the current bus station? I think you'll find we do. The 50. The 133 use it every day and every hour! on a sunday we run almost every route that uses the hus station too! Makes me laugh reading comments saying our company doesn't use something it plainly does and often!

Okay so 2 of your daily services use the station. My mistake. Don't where the 50 goes but the 133 isn't a local run of the mill service.

Yes you do use it on Sundays but at that point you are working for essex county council not network colchester and are covering the first routes. I still can't catch the 8 from there or most of ypur usual services.

TheCaptain wrote:

network driver wrote:
Can we just get this straight.

It will not be a bus station. And shouldn't be called one.

I agree the existing site is an eyesore but it houses so many buses. Not just first buses. Headinghams. Chambers. Network colchester. We all use it and without this space for all these buses to stand or be stationary while the relevant change overs etc take place I just don't see where all these buses will fit in with the new system.

Also, do network colchester not use the current bus station? I think you'll find we do. The 50. The 133 use it every day and every hour! on a sunday we run almost every route that uses the hus station too! Makes me laugh reading comments saying our company doesn't use something it plainly does and often!

Okay so 2 of your daily services use the station. My mistake. Don't where the 50 goes but the 133 isn't a local run of the mill service.

Yes you do use it on Sundays but at that point you are working for essex county council not network colchester and are covering the first routes. I still can't catch the 8 from there or most of ypur usual services.

So what exactly IS your point then TheCaptain?

It seems that you simply ‘want’ to be right - even when you are on record as making an incorrect statement, i.e., “None of the Network Colchester buses use the current one so why will they need to use the new one?”

Personally, I think that the opinion of a driver, which uses this facility (i.e. the bus station – current or proposed), is a valuable contribution. They are after all, an indispensable user group! In addition, they can tell if a facility is fit for purpose from their point of view – an observation that should surely carry weight.

Do you drive buses? Could you manoeuvre one in and out of a busy setting, surrounded by traffic and pedestrians?

You additionally seem a little sketchy on the services in and out of the station, save for information that could easily be gleaned from on-line timetables. Perhaps you would prefer the bus station relocated on the Hythe, thereby enabling you to get straight off your boat and then catch a bus to embark on a magical mystery tour on the number 50?

historyman22 wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:

network driver wrote:
Can we just get this straight.

It will not be a bus station. And shouldn't be called one.

I agree the existing site is an eyesore but it houses so many buses. Not just first buses. Headinghams. Chambers. Network colchester. We all use it and without this space for all these buses to stand or be stationary while the relevant change overs etc take place I just don't see where all these buses will fit in with the new system.

Also, do network colchester not use the current bus station? I think you'll find we do. The 50. The 133 use it every day and every hour! on a sunday we run almost every route that uses the hus station too! Makes me laugh reading comments saying our company doesn't use something it plainly does and often!

Okay so 2 of your daily services use the station. My mistake. Don't where the 50 goes but the 133 isn't a local run of the mill service.

Yes you do use it on Sundays but at that point you are working for essex county council not network colchester and are covering the first routes. I still can't catch the 8 from there or most of ypur usual services.

So what exactly IS your point then TheCaptain?

It seems that you simply ‘want’ to be right - even when you are on record as making an incorrect statement, i.e., “None of the Network Colchester buses use the current one so why will they need to use the new one?”

Personally, I think that the opinion of a driver, which uses this facility (i.e. the bus station – current or proposed), is a valuable contribution. They are after all, an indispensable user group! In addition, they can tell if a facility is fit for purpose from their point of view – an observation that should surely carry weight.

Do you drive buses? Could you manoeuvre one in and out of a busy setting, surrounded by traffic and pedestrians?

You additionally seem a little sketchy on the services in and out of the station, save for information that could easily be gleaned from on-line timetables. Perhaps you would prefer the bus station relocated on the Hythe, thereby enabling you to get straight off your boat and then catch a bus to embark on a magical mystery tour on the number 50?

My point was that 95% of the routes operated commercially by Network Colchester don't use the bus station.

If one company don't need to use it do the others.

Now I've checked the timetable I note that route 50 is also an Essex County Council route.

So every route operated by Network Colchester and not paid for by ECC and is a normal local bus (not 133 airport bus) avoid the bus station. As does at least one first route 68.

My overall point is do the passengers (that includes me) who use buses need a bus station?

What's the need for a Bus Station, when half the buses don't even turn up. I've lost count of the number of times scheduled buses simply arrive!?

What's the need for a Bus Station, when half the buses don't even turn up. I've lost count of the number of times scheduled buses simply arrive!?

TheCaptain wrote:

historyman22 wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:

network driver wrote:
Can we just get this straight.

It will not be a bus station. And shouldn't be called one.

I agree the existing site is an eyesore but it houses so many buses. Not just first buses. Headinghams. Chambers. Network colchester. We all use it and without this space for all these buses to stand or be stationary while the relevant change overs etc take place I just don't see where all these buses will fit in with the new system.

Also, do network colchester not use the current bus station? I think you'll find we do. The 50. The 133 use it every day and every hour! on a sunday we run almost every route that uses the hus station too! Makes me laugh reading comments saying our company doesn't use something it plainly does and often!

Okay so 2 of your daily services use the station. My mistake. Don't where the 50 goes but the 133 isn't a local run of the mill service.

Yes you do use it on Sundays but at that point you are working for essex county council not network colchester and are covering the first routes. I still can't catch the 8 from there or most of ypur usual services.

So what exactly IS your point then TheCaptain?

It seems that you simply ‘want’ to be right - even when you are on record as making an incorrect statement, i.e., “None of the Network Colchester buses use the current one so why will they need to use the new one?”

Personally, I think that the opinion of a driver, which uses this facility (i.e. the bus station – current or proposed), is a valuable contribution. They are after all, an indispensable user group! In addition, they can tell if a facility is fit for purpose from their point of view – an observation that should surely carry weight.

Do you drive buses? Could you manoeuvre one in and out of a busy setting, surrounded by traffic and pedestrians?

You additionally seem a little sketchy on the services in and out of the station, save for information that could easily be gleaned from on-line timetables. Perhaps you would prefer the bus station relocated on the Hythe, thereby enabling you to get straight off your boat and then catch a bus to embark on a magical mystery tour on the number 50?

My point was that 95% of the routes operated commercially by Network Colchester don't use the bus station.

If one company don't need to use it do the others.

Now I've checked the timetable I note that route 50 is also an Essex County Council route.

So every route operated by Network Colchester and not paid for by ECC and is a normal local bus (not 133 airport bus) avoid the bus station. As does at least one first route 68.

My overall point is do the passengers (that includes me) who use buses need a bus station?

Hmmmm.. an arrangement of, lets call them super stops would suffice then.
And once St Botolphs is developed the buses will be where the new department store will be. .. And a short stroll to a train station....
And tbe eyesore bus station will be landscaped. Yep I can see why so many object.

Well the new timetables are on http://www.traveline
southeast.org.uk using info supplied by ECC and it is NOT a bus station as they list as
"Colchester Town Centre, Osborne Street" or
"Colchester Town Centre, Stanwell Street"
_____

hughie-s wrote:
Well the new timetables are on http://www.traveline

southeast.org.uk using info supplied by ECC and it is NOT a bus station as they list as
"Colchester Town Centre, Osborne Street" or
"Colchester Town Centre, Stanwell Street"
_____

So from when has Osborne and Stanwell Streets been town centre??