Essex Chief Constable says the county could have £45m wiped from its budget (From Gazette)

Does this mean the general public will have to beat themselves up.....!

Lets hope they are all PSCO,S.
What a useless, scruffy lot they are.
They have to walk around in two,s and half the time they are just taking a stroll. One real PC is worth 20 PCSO,s
I am glad to have retired before they arrived on the scene.Let,s see real P.Cs on the job again.

how come they can cut something thats important to us all but they keep these waste of time free bus passes going that cost a fortune, they have cut everywhere else now its time to get rid of these god forsaken things

paul trimble wrote:
Does this mean the general public will have to beat themselves up.....!

How many coppers does it take to change a light bulb? At least a dozen. One to smash the light bulb from its socket, the others to concoct a story as to how the light bulb accidentally fell down the stairs.

Anna Key.............what a totally worthless and useless comment to make.

Self wrote:
Anna Key.............what a totally worthless and useless comment to make.

Thank-you for that. Touche!

Never see them any way, these days! When was the last time any one saw a copper on the beat in the Town centre? (during the day light hours)
Get rid of the PCSO's total waste of space - lets see some real policing for a change.

They don't have to make job losses. Officers simply have to join the real world and accept longer service, reduced pensions, an end to ludicrous overtime rates, outdated working practices etc. The rest of us have. then we can start on PCSO's, the endless joint funded police-related non-jobs ex-officers seem to get with councils and quangos etc etc etc. Job done.

At a time when the british population is facing severe reductions in their living standards. With all the cutbacks, job losses, and the anticipation of an increace in crime which usually follows these austere times. This must be the worst possible time to reduce the numbers of police.

Keep regular Police officers. Encourage Special Constables, and cut down on the paper work.
Less paper work would (I assume) mean more officers actually on the beat and no doubt less staff to process all the paperwork.

Cuts need to be made to pay this financial mess back, but that shouldn't be at the expense of frontline public protection.

How much could be saved by buying Fords or Vauxhalls intead of Volvos, BMWs and Subarus or are they just in case Jeremy Clarkson visits. Do we need horses and should police retirement age increase a couple of years?

Why does everyone always want to get rid of the PCSO's? At least they are seen out and about. When was the last time you saw an officer on the beat? And as for the comments about them always being in pairs, this is not true anymore. Essex Police have a single crewing policy and the only time you will see them in pairs would be when attending a particularly awkward incident or maybe sometimes on a busy Friday or Saturday evening. PCSO's have to justify why they are double crewed if challenged by supervisors and are not routinely sent out in pairs anymore, and this has been the policy for quite a long time now.

paul trimble wrote:
Does this mean the general public will have to beat themselves up.....!

Not if you fall asleep in your car.

In such cases the normal service will continue!

South colchester resident wrote:
Why does everyone always want to get rid of the PCSO's? At least they are seen out and about. When was the last time you saw an officer on the beat? And as for the comments about them always being in pairs, this is not true anymore. Essex Police have a single crewing policy and the only time you will see them in pairs would be when attending a particularly awkward incident or maybe sometimes on a busy Friday or Saturday evening. PCSO's have to justify why they are double crewed if challenged by supervisors and are not routinely sent out in pairs anymore, and this has been the policy for quite a long time now.

OK, taking that point.

A couple of years ago I intervened in the High Street when a man, who was well out of control looked about to assault the woman with him. He was pleading with her to have him back but was doing it in a very, very aggressive manner. There was the usual mob of sightseers in the High Street, treating it as a form of public entertainment, the same crowd who would gather if we brought back public hangings.

I decided, against my better judgement, all 58 years of me to step in. I managed to hold the fellow off for long enough for the woman to leg it and a more able bodied chap finally came to my aid. We summoned a couple of PCSO who said they could not do anything except call the actual police. One of them advised us against the risk if we unlawfully held this man but on balance we felt he would probably pursue the woman and assault her. Anyway the PCSOs watched from a safe distance and made calls and finally a police officer arrived and made an arrest, thanking us for our efforts.

So, this incident did not inspire my confidence in PCSOs, who appeared to have less power and willingness to act than we as normal members of the public.

I don't see why this should present a problem. All we keep reading about from the Chief Constable is how crime rates are falling. If there are less crimes then obviously we need less police to deal with them.
.
Maybe, if you'd told the truth about crime then you wouldn't be faced with these cuts.

John the resonator wrote:

South colchester resident wrote: Why does everyone always want to get rid of the PCSO's? At least they are seen out and about. When was the last time you saw an officer on the beat? And as for the comments about them always being in pairs, this is not true anymore. Essex Police have a single crewing policy and the only time you will see them in pairs would be when attending a particularly awkward incident or maybe sometimes on a busy Friday or Saturday evening. PCSO's have to justify why they are double crewed if challenged by supervisors and are not routinely sent out in pairs anymore, and this has been the policy for quite a long time now.

OK, taking that point. A couple of years ago I intervened in the High Street when a man, who was well out of control looked about to assault the woman with him. He was pleading with her to have him back but was doing it in a very, very aggressive manner. There was the usual mob of sightseers in the High Street, treating it as a form of public entertainment, the same crowd who would gather if we brought back public hangings. I decided, against my better judgement, all 58 years of me to step in. I managed to hold the fellow off for long enough for the woman to leg it and a more able bodied chap finally came to my aid. We summoned a couple of PCSO who said they could not do anything except call the actual police. One of them advised us against the risk if we unlawfully held this man but on balance we felt he would probably pursue the woman and assault her. Anyway the PCSOs watched from a safe distance and made calls and finally a police officer arrived and made an arrest, thanking us for our efforts. So, this incident did not inspire my confidence in PCSOs, who appeared to have less power and willingness to act than we as normal members of the public.

I can see your point, but that is just one occasion. PCSO's would have been told by control to observe until Police arrived. They do not have the powers or equipment to restrain anyone. They are not employed to restrain people.This type of occurence is rare and i still stand by my original point that they are the officers you see out and about on the streets. I do not think it was a lack of willingness that stopped them intervening, more a case of not being lawfully permitted to do so.I can see how it must look bad from an onlookers point of view though.

HOW about cutting the salaries of the High Ranking officers, who do sfa for what they are paid?

Then and ONLY then, might we get value for money?

ykoops wrote:
Never see them any way, these days! When was the last time any one saw a copper on the beat in the Town centre? (during the day light hours)
Get rid of the PCSO's total waste of space - lets see some real policing for a change.

Actually, I saw four different PCs plus two PCSOs (OK, so PCSO don't really count) in Southend town centre yesterday . The reason I can remember this is because, at the time, I thought it was unusual to see so many officers on the beat in one place and commented as much to my wife. However, it is during the darkness hours when you won't find a police officer for either love nor money.

South colchester resident wrote:
Why does everyone always want to get rid of the PCSO's? At least they are seen out and about. When was the last time you saw an officer on the beat? And as for the comments about them always being in pairs, this is not true anymore. Essex Police have a single crewing policy and the only time you will see them in pairs would be when attending a particularly awkward incident or maybe sometimes on a busy Friday or Saturday evening. PCSO's have to justify why they are double crewed if challenged by supervisors and are not routinely sent out in pairs anymore, and this has been the policy for quite a long time now.

I will deal with each of your four main points seperately.
1. PCSOs may be visible but have very few powers and are, thus, useless.
2. I saw 4 PCs on the beat in Southend yesterday.
3. These PCs were in pairs.
4. All the PCSOs I see are in pairs

South colchester resident wrote:

John the resonator wrote:

South colchester resident wrote: Why does everyone always want to get rid of the PCSO's? At least they are seen out and about. When was the last time you saw an officer on the beat? And as for the comments about them always being in pairs, this is not true anymore. Essex Police have a single crewing policy and the only time you will see them in pairs would be when attending a particularly awkward incident or maybe sometimes on a busy Friday or Saturday evening. PCSO's have to justify why they are double crewed if challenged by supervisors and are not routinely sent out in pairs anymore, and this has been the policy for quite a long time now.

OK, taking that point. A couple of years ago I intervened in the High Street when a man, who was well out of control looked about to assault the woman with him. He was pleading with her to have him back but was doing it in a very, very aggressive manner. There was the usual mob of sightseers in the High Street, treating it as a form of public entertainment, the same crowd who would gather if we brought back public hangings. I decided, against my better judgement, all 58 years of me to step in. I managed to hold the fellow off for long enough for the woman to leg it and a more able bodied chap finally came to my aid. We summoned a couple of PCSO who said they could not do anything except call the actual police. One of them advised us against the risk if we unlawfully held this man but on balance we felt he would probably pursue the woman and assault her. Anyway the PCSOs watched from a safe distance and made calls and finally a police officer arrived and made an arrest, thanking us for our efforts. So, this incident did not inspire my confidence in PCSOs, who appeared to have less power and willingness to act than we as normal members of the public.

I can see your point, but that is just one occasion. PCSO's would have been told by control to observe until Police arrived. They do not have the powers or equipment to restrain anyone. They are not employed to restrain people.This type of occurence is rare and i still stand by my original point that they are the officers you see out and about on the streets. I do not think it was a lack of willingness that stopped them intervening, more a case of not being lawfully permitted to do so.I can see how it must look bad from an onlookers point of view though.

So in effect they can do no more that a normal member of the public who calls 999. Says it all really.

Self wrote:
Anna Key.............what a totally worthless and useless comment to make.

Very funny though!

paul trimble wrote:
Does this mean the general public will have to beat themselves up.....!

well, with a bit of luck just the pond life will., .........
work it out ,if you can..........

I have subscribed to the Essex Police job vacancy alert for the past year and a half.

The number of non jobs (those that had little bearing on the job of the Police) that appeared on this site up until recently was astounding, as was the salaries that went with them.

Essex Police is a bloated bureaucracy which has lost its way and seems more concerned about the image it projects via the media than actually the results it gets from protecting the public.

Saving £45m should be relatively easy for someone with an ounce of common sense.

As for those PCSO's - they're about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Trimble & Key

What a couple of hilarious& brave jokers you are.

But when the s*it hits the fan you’ll wanna be standing behind some copper I bet!

Scrap PCSO's as they have no real powers then start at the Top.
Mr Jim Barker-McCardle and all his 'assistants' must be first to go.
All the others must accept a pay cut or risk loosing their jobs.
Is it me or are our Police Officers really getting Fatter, Shorter, Scruffier (and more disliked).

All the others must accept a pay cut or risk loosing their jobs

Righty-o.....remembe
r, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Pay good cops a good wage...

Nice to see it made some people smile and some right-wingers frown, all very positive! By the way, Jose, Like most people of 41 I've experienced crime. But when I reported it to the police they did absolutely nothing about it. Yet when I attended a peace vigil in Colchester High St consisting of mainly elderly Quakers, they dispatch half a dozen officers all the way from Chelmsford HQ complete with stills and video cameras, who at the end chose to follow me all the way home to my front door! Give these idiots all the money and resources you like, and they'll still make an absolute mess of it.
That all said, Nora's point about cutting officers when in a recession with the inevitable, associated rise in crime, is a very important one. It's just a pity that we can't trust the police to deal with these problems effectively. Of course this would never have happened in Maggie's day, because she needed her boot boys to beat up the miners.

Dont understand this story, i was not aware that there were any police in the area anyway, i havent seen any??

It's a shame that stories like this always attract the Police bashing brigade. Just out of interest did anybody see the article in Wednesdays echo about the two officers that on their day off took a young boy who had woken up to find an intruder sitting at the end of his bed, on a day out to try and help him get over the traumatic experience. Massive credit to them.

Paperwork and targets are enforced by the government, officers have no choice but to complete them in order to give cases the best possible chance of reaching court and obtaining a successful outcome in the hands of the courts system.

I would imagine the reason we don't see many officers on foot patrol anymore is because they can cover more ground in vehcles. An officer on foot patrol in westcliff would never be able to respond to an incident in southend or shoebury or even some other parts of westcliff. Times have changed and so has the way the Police patrol.

There are PC's on patrol in southend town centre, they have a specific team of officers that do this and I always see them down there both when I am doing my shopping and on nights out.

I don't think any of us really appreciate the difficulty of the work the police do or its diverse nature, instead of slating them all the time lets help them out. And that can either be by giving them information to help their investigations or by raising it with them if you feel under-serviced.

Magicman10, in fact From 5th March 2009, the only national police target is to increase public confidence by targetting resources at crime and antisocial behaviour that effects local communities the most. Many forces respectfully implemented changes that the public wanted. Essex however ignored the government mandate and carried on with its detection obsessed approach.

Then in June 2010 once a new government came into power, the home secretary went further by scrapping the unworkable policing pledge,... Essex Ignored this and carried on regardless.

Essex police has a policy of visiting every victim of crime even for really minor incidents, leaving officers tied up and attached to incidents of utter trivia and unable to respond to serious offences...or conduct deterant patrols. If someone reports a crime days after it has happened, they should simply be given a crime reference number over the phone and the incident closed if there is clearly going to be no evidence. The police need to focus their resources on violent crime and acquisitional crime, not having an officer waste a whole day dealing with a 11 year old for throwing a piece of cucumber at a teacher.


Rather then patrolling and preventing crime, uniform is tied up dealing with prisoners arrested for the very offences they could have prevented, this cannot be right. I am not suggesting that it is acceptable for people to commit these offences but without a strong uniformed presence on our streets, it is obvious crime will occur.

It is about time that Essex Police Authority and Essex Police's command staff actually implement the policy that the government the tax payer has elected has mandated for it.


Scrap all the non jobs and PCSO and instead retrain these people to interview and put the required paperwork for court together so the police can patrol the streets. The public want the police on the streets, PUT THEM ON THE STREETS, It could not be any simpler.

RONNIE B wrote:
Lets hope they are all PSCO,S. What a useless, scruffy lot they are. They have to walk around in two,s and half the time they are just taking a stroll. One real PC is worth 20 PCSO,s I am glad to have retired before they arrived on the scene.Let,s see real P.Cs on the job again.

The reason there are so many PCSOs about and seemingly less and less real policemen, must have something to do with the lack of funds available over the past few years.

PS - nice to see you know the difference between commas and apostrophes.

Actually I think RONNIE B should apply for a job in the police and would do very well in the training, especially when to come to 'non-discriminatory practice.' RONNIE B is already streets ahead in treating both commas and apostrophes the same!

No offence meant RONNIE B, I hope you take this in the spirit intended.

A return to good old fashioned policing is what we need. The police know who the villains are, go out and round them up, stick them in the cells for the night, a bit of interrogation around the groin and kidneys, and send them home for breakfast.

Funny how you can go off people.

BASILBRUSH wrote:
Keep regular Police officers. Encourage Special Constables, and cut down on the paper work.
Less paper work would (I assume) mean more officers actually on the beat and no doubt less staff to process all the paperwork.

Cuts need to be made to pay this financial mess back, but that shouldn't be at the expense of frontline public protection.

Absolutely hit the nail on the head on all counts.
The problem isn't the staffing levels of operational officers. The problem is that thanks to the whims of the home office, officers are stuck in front of computers or dealing with paperwork instead of being out on the streets where they want to be & need to be! (I can't think of anyone wanting to join the police force to just write up document after document!)
There's mention of Specials too. Frequently confused with PCSOs, & overlooked by everyone, but Specials have full powers of arrest and are in effect full police officers, just not paid.
At the moment, I understand the Met have a recruitment policy that they will only take on Specials now, with at least 2 years service. That should weed out the potential applicants who start policing, then decide it's not for them. That might also be an incentive to people who genuinely want to join the police as a full-time career, and simultaneously give them on-the-job training. Only problem is the possible over-reliance on specials. Bearing in mind that they are not properly trained, and not full-time, this might lead to a risk in inefficient service, or worse still, lead to crimes being dealt with by completely clueless power-hungry people who only want the uniform & handcuffs. - Not saying that all specials are like this, but I'm pretty sure some are nothing more than animated cardboard cutouts like what you see in the BP garages around Basildon.
As Ivana Goodhump says, cutting the salaries of the top bods might also be worth considering. I can't remember who, but there was a Met Officer last year who publicly turned down his annual bonus. The police need more concientious officers like that, rather than the sort who cream off an institution. After all, whether in uniform or in the boardroom, a fat cat is a fat cat!
As for PCSOs, I think it's fair to say that they are not a popular alternative. They were brought in under the Labour government, & have been around for 8-9 years now, but it seems that the general public feel that they are not worth the money. Personally, I do think they do a good job (at least, they do around my way), but if their salary is similar to a regular police constable's, then it is time to reconsider their worth in the structure of the police force. It might be interesting to see the ratio of PCSOs vs. officers assigned to a station as well. - Surely it would be better to reduce the numbers of PCSOs, & for every 2 that are reduced, replace with 1 regular officer. That way, frontline police numbers increase, and Essex Police STILL make a massive potential saving!
Jim Barker-McArdle has to agree that irrespective of cuts, getting rid of frontline police and even worse, not recruiting more police to replace any natural run-off levels from retirement etc., will be devastating, but at the moment, it seems that all he's been doing is paying lip service, & making very weak apologies. (I wonder if he's ever taken notes from Tony Blair on dealing with public confidence, because I personally don't trust that he genuinely has the public's concerns at heart.) He's alright. His job is safe. As long as he can spin a line & use words like 'regrettably', & 'valiant' in his blogs, maybe he can fool people into thinking he's making an effort. - Personally, I don't think he's really looked into how to get the most out of what he's got, and how to really prune the support/admin side of things.

emcee wrote:

South colchester resident wrote:

John the resonator wrote:

South colchester resident wrote: Why does everyone always want to get rid of the PCSO's? At least they are seen out and about. When was the last time you saw an officer on the beat? And as for the comments about them always being in pairs, this is not true anymore. Essex Police have a single crewing policy and the only time you will see them in pairs would be when attending a particularly awkward incident or maybe sometimes on a busy Friday or Saturday evening. PCSO's have to justify why they are double crewed if challenged by supervisors and are not routinely sent out in pairs anymore, and this has been the policy for quite a long time now.

OK, taking that point. A couple of years ago I intervened in the High Street when a man, who was well out of control looked about to assault the woman with him. He was pleading with her to have him back but was doing it in a very, very aggressive manner. There was the usual mob of sightseers in the High Street, treating it as a form of public entertainment, the same crowd who would gather if we brought back public hangings. I decided, against my better judgement, all 58 years of me to step in. I managed to hold the fellow off for long enough for the woman to leg it and a more able bodied chap finally came to my aid. We summoned a couple of PCSO who said they could not do anything except call the actual police. One of them advised us against the risk if we unlawfully held this man but on balance we felt he would probably pursue the woman and assault her. Anyway the PCSOs watched from a safe distance and made calls and finally a police officer arrived and made an arrest, thanking us for our efforts. So, this incident did not inspire my confidence in PCSOs, who appeared to have less power and willingness to act than we as normal members of the public.

I can see your point, but that is just one occasion. PCSO's would have been told by control to observe until Police arrived. They do not have the powers or equipment to restrain anyone. They are not employed to restrain people.This type of occurence is rare and i still stand by my original point that they are the officers you see out and about on the streets. I do not think it was a lack of willingness that stopped them intervening, more a case of not being lawfully permitted to do so.I can see how it must look bad from an onlookers point of view though.

So in effect they can do no more that a normal member of the public who calls 999. Says it all really.

With respect, The somewhat confusing role of PCSO is not to deal with public order and the like. Perhaps people would prefer to see PCs carrying out duties such as scene guarding, house to house enquiries and dealing with minor offences, at a higher cost to the tax payer! PCSOs deal with low level crime and anti social behaviour. A lot of this is dealing with under 16s, and trying to stear them away from a career of crime. PCSOs replace the bus conductors, park keepers and other community members (not Police Officers) that have been lost in time that used to challenge anti social behaviour in the past. Many calls to the Police do not require a fully trained and more expensive police officer.
I do beleive that PCSOs should have their powers and hours of work reviewed and the ones I know would certainly interviene in the situation described above, although they would not be sent to something like this.

magicman10 wrote:
It's a shame that stories like this always attract the Police bashing brigade. Just out of interest did anybody see the article in Wednesdays echo about the two officers that on their day off took a young boy who had woken up to find an intruder sitting at the end of his bed, on a day out to try and help him get over the traumatic experience. Massive credit to them. Paperwork and targets are enforced by the government, officers have no choice but to complete them in order to give cases the best possible chance of reaching court and obtaining a successful outcome in the hands of the courts system. I would imagine the reason we don't see many officers on foot patrol anymore is because they can cover more ground in vehcles. An officer on foot patrol in westcliff would never be able to respond to an incident in southend or shoebury or even some other parts of westcliff. Times have changed and so has the way the Police patrol. There are PC's on patrol in southend town centre, they have a specific team of officers that do this and I always see them down there both when I am doing my shopping and on nights out. I don't think any of us really appreciate the difficulty of the work the police do or its diverse nature, instead of slating them all the time lets help them out. And that can either be by giving them information to help their investigations or by raising it with them if you feel under-serviced.

I 100% agree with this comment. Most of the 'Police Bashing Brigade' do not appreciate Police work at all.

Also with respect, I have yet to actually see PCSOs 'deal' with anything. I really mean that.

It is a regular joke to see them walking in twos down the High Street talking to each other as cyclists whistle past them.

What makes me laugh is when people critisise pcsos for having to call a police officer to the scene after they have detained someone. If a Police Officer was on foot and arrested someone they would still need to call up for another Police Officer, to get a van to transport the offender to custody.

Right since we are having a good old bash out at PCSO's, these are the Essex figures

Police Officers 3600, Police Staff 2340, PCSO's 400.

So there are 9 times more Police Officers then PCSO's, yet all you lot do is round up on PCSO's, can't do this PCSO's cant do that. Well I can't spin on my head or burp and **** at the sametime, does that make me useless?

If PCSO's go do you think they will be replaced? I don't think they will.

Will we see more proper officers on the street? No they will be doing what the support staff did but at a much higher wage.

Maybe the keyboard bloggers should make their way to the police station and go sign up as Specials, that way you can stop moaning about Police this and PCSO that. Then you can go deal with some drugged up crack head who just wants to hurt you in your free time, or go and deal with the jobs dumped on you by fulltime and fully trained officers who don't see them as important. I mean lets face it no disrespect to Specials but if it takes 2 years to train a Full time and fully paid PC, how can a Special PC who only does weekend training courses and is let out onto the street after 6 weeks be anywhere near as capable as a Full Time PC, even PCSO's now get 8 weeks training in Police College another 4 weeks on the job and then are signed off after 6 months.
If you think your able to deal with anything Essex can spitt out at you after erm, 12 days well by all means go ahead join as a Special PC.
Specials are just people who play police in their spare time, so what happens to anywork that they generate? oh hang on it gets given to a fulltime police officer, so following this chain, we are going from having a fulltime community support team, to a bunch of people who work for 4hrs for nothing come and go when they want and do it for a little bit of excitment after watching the bill. Yeah sounds good sign me up!
Still think of the goodtimes when you have a problem like a neighbour issue, without the community teams to come deal with these issues you will be lucky if you ever see a Police Officer after these cuts come in, because unless that neighbour is kicking your door in, you will never ever been seen as a priorty job. Then we will all moan that those useless PCSO's were scrapped, then we will moan that no one ever turns up, then we will moan we never ever see anyone walking around.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't!

John the resonator wrote:
Also with respect, I have yet to actually see PCSOs 'deal' with anything. I really mean that. It is a regular joke to see them walking in twos down the High Street talking to each other as cyclists whistle past them.

I do know what you mean John. Unfortunetely when authorities start dishing out tickets for things they get accused of 'picking on pensioners', 'harrassing people' and told to 'catch some 'proper criminals'. I do agree and I think they should patrol alone with increased powers.

I think the general public would like to see just the ordinary bobby on the beat.
that won't happen though.no quedos in just being a local, ordinary helpfull local policeman.

Time wrote:
Right since we are having a good old bash out at PCSO's, these are the Essex figures Police Officers 3600, Police Staff 2340, PCSO's 400. So there are 9 times more Police Officers then PCSO's, yet all you lot do is round up on PCSO's, can't do this PCSO's cant do that. Well I can't spin on my head or burp and **** at the sametime, does that make me useless? If PCSO's go do you think they will be replaced? I don't think they will. Will we see more proper officers on the street? No they will be doing what the support staff did but at a much higher wage. Maybe the keyboard bloggers should make their way to the police station and go sign up as Specials, that way you can stop moaning about Police this and PCSO that. Then you can go deal with some drugged up crack head who just wants to hurt you in your free time, or go and deal with the jobs dumped on you by fulltime and fully trained officers who don't see them as important. I mean lets face it no disrespect to Specials but if it takes 2 years to train a Full time and fully paid PC, how can a Special PC who only does weekend training courses and is let out onto the street after 6 weeks be anywhere near as capable as a Full Time PC, even PCSO's now get 8 weeks training in Police College another 4 weeks on the job and then are signed off after 6 months. If you think your able to deal with anything Essex can spitt out at you after erm, 12 days well by all means go ahead join as a Special PC. Specials are just people who play police in their spare time, so what happens to anywork that they generate? oh hang on it gets given to a fulltime police officer, so following this chain, we are going from having a fulltime community support team, to a bunch of people who work for 4hrs for nothing come and go when they want and do it for a little bit of excitment after watching the bill. Yeah sounds good sign me up! Still think of the goodtimes when you have a problem like a neighbour issue, without the community teams to come deal with these issues you will be lucky if you ever see a Police Officer after these cuts come in, because unless that neighbour is kicking your door in, you will never ever been seen as a priorty job. Then we will all moan that those useless PCSO's were scrapped, then we will moan that no one ever turns up, then we will moan we never ever see anyone walking around. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't!

well said

I am surprised nobody has mentioned politicians so far but this is where the problem starts. During the period of the Labour governent there was a huge increase in the number criminal laws. Some of these "crimes" would not even be recognised as crimes in the mind of joe public but they still have to be administrated and tie up resources. If the Police were not tied hand and foot by their masters, getting it right would be quite straight forward.

1. Tackle the basic crimes first (originally there were only 10)

2. Lose the box ticking mindset. Nobody wants to have their bike stolen and then,six months later, get a letter asking if they need counselling as a victim of crime! (happened to me).

3. More individual discretion for officers at the scene.

4. Sorry, but PCSOs have to go. Either you are police or you are not. You cannot be half pregnant.

Alekhine wrote:
I am surprised nobody has mentioned politicians so far but this is where the problem starts. During the period of the Labour governent there was a huge increase in the number criminal laws. Some of these "crimes" would not even be recognised as crimes in the mind of joe public but they still have to be administrated and tie up resources. If the Police were not tied hand and foot by their masters, getting it right would be quite straight forward. 1. Tackle the basic crimes first (originally there were only 10) 2. Lose the box ticking mindset. Nobody wants to have their bike stolen and then,six months later, get a letter asking if they need counselling as a victim of crime! (happened to me). 3. More individual discretion for officers at the scene. 4. Sorry, but PCSOs have to go. Either you are police or you are not. You cannot be half pregnant.

If PCSOs were to go, who do you think should for example carry out house to house enquiries or stand on a cordon? Police officers are simply too expensive to be employed in doing vital but simple tasks that only require limited training.

Alekhine wrote:
I am surprised nobody has mentioned politicians so far but this is where the problem starts. During the period of the Labour governent there was a huge increase in the number criminal laws. Some of these "crimes" would not even be recognised as crimes in the mind of joe public but they still have to be administrated and tie up resources. If the Police were not tied hand and foot by their masters, getting it right would be quite straight forward.

1. Tackle the basic crimes first (originally there were only 10)

2. Lose the box ticking mindset. Nobody wants to have their bike stolen and then,six months later, get a letter asking if they need counselling as a victim of crime! (happened to me).

3. More individual discretion for officers at the scene.

4. Sorry, but PCSOs have to go. Either you are police or you are not. You cannot be half pregnant.

If Maggie wasn't a politician then what was she (could think of a few answers myself)?

Alekhine - To be fair to you, you make a good point about some of New Labour's very silly laws. I just could not resist asking the above question.

What a dangerous situation. It is obvious from some comments that the PCSO role is not understood. It would seem by a retired police officer in one case.

Give PCSO the power of arrest and they too would be tied up for hours with paperwork.

Scene of crime preservation, intelligence, community liaison, door to door enquiries, youth petty crime, shop lifting traffic offences are just some of the jobs that they (PCSO's) undertake freeing up police officers time.Get rid of them then the good old PC will need to deal, Whoopee say the ciminals.

Further they have all undergone intensive training and could easily take on further tasks if required rather than discard them as useless.

Whatever we are being told crime is on the increase and as the recession bites further the drugs, prostitution and low level crime will inevitably increase. Any front line service involved in identiying and stopping the offenders needs to be protected and strengths used to maximum effect.

As someone who has strong links with school headteachers, school governors, and school caretakers, I have to say that I cannot give enough praise and gratitude to the wonderful efforts of the PCSOs. Before the advent of these special officers, after hours vandalism to school properties was rife. hardly a night went by without great damage being done to school premices and at a frightening cost to the taxpayers. Also the PCSOs are high profile deterents to drug gangs who congregate in the towns dark area's, such as the towns subways..."So" I say to those who would put down the WPSOs, please do your research and get all your facts right.

Its the Pcso's whos going to be loosing there jobs, my brother is a policeman and hes heard this from the horses mouth.

Anna Key wrote:
Alekhine - To be fair to you, you make a good point about some of New Labour's very silly laws. I just could not resist asking the above question.

I was'nt trying to make a party political point here, but Labour do stand out to me as being the worse culprits on this issue. Huge amounts of red tape obstructing business, ever expanding tax laws, ditto health and safety, not to mention political correctness. All happening on top of a financial crisis and immigration fiasco. Lets face it, the country is broke. Ofcouse Maggie had the poll tax, the miners strike and the north of England might as well have fallen into the sea, but Labour, in my view, still make the Tories look like amateurs.

PCSOs?
.
You mean CHIMPs (Completely Hopelesss In Most Policing Situations).
.
They're paid about two-thirds of what a real PC gets - so 3 PCSOs = 2 real PCs.

livelyred wrote:
Its the Pcso's whos going to be loosing there jobs, my brother is a policeman and hes heard this from the horses mouth.

And that should be the first department to go - what use are 3 horses (or is it 4 now?). £2 million a year easily saved.

Southendsmith wrote:

Alekhine wrote: I am surprised nobody has mentioned politicians so far but this is where the problem starts. During the period of the Labour governent there was a huge increase in the number criminal laws. Some of these "crimes" would not even be recognised as crimes in the mind of joe public but they still have to be administrated and tie up resources. If the Police were not tied hand and foot by their masters, getting it right would be quite straight forward. 1. Tackle the basic crimes first (originally there were only 10) 2. Lose the box ticking mindset. Nobody wants to have their bike stolen and then,six months later, get a letter asking if they need counselling as a victim of crime! (happened to me). 3. More individual discretion for officers at the scene. 4. Sorry, but PCSOs have to go. Either you are police or you are not. You cannot be half pregnant.

If PCSOs were to go, who do you think should for example carry out house to house enquiries or stand on a cordon? Police officers are simply too expensive to be employed in doing vital but simple tasks that only require limited training.

Most of this work could be carried out by civillians. As for the more physical work, such as standing on a cordon, this could be contracted out. Why should the taxpayer foot the bill for every extreme faction that wants to make a protest and cause a riot? They should be made to pay for the security costs. I suspect fully trained officers still spend a lot of time on vital but simple tasks that only require limited training (despite PCSOs). Maybe one reading this can comment.

Geepee wrote:
What a dangerous situation. It is obvious from some comments that the PCSO role is not understood. It would seem by a retired police officer in one case. Give PCSO the power of arrest and they too would be tied up for hours with paperwork. Scene of crime preservation, intelligence, community liaison, door to door enquiries, youth petty crime, shop lifting traffic offences are just some of the jobs that they (PCSO's) undertake freeing up police officers time.Get rid of them then the good old PC will need to deal, Whoopee say the ciminals. Further they have all undergone intensive training and could easily take on further tasks if required rather than discard them as useless. Whatever we are being told crime is on the increase and as the recession bites further the drugs, prostitution and low level crime will inevitably increase. Any front line service involved in identiying and stopping the offenders needs to be protected and strengths used to maximum effect.

Is there a reason why the after arrest paperwork has to be done by somebody with powers of arrest?

Heinz, you ask what use are police horses. Of course they are not there just to let adoring children give them lumps of sugar. Their main purpose is repression, for example breaking up picket lines. To keep their hand in, they also appear at football grounds when clashes are expected between rival supporters.

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
1310689/PCSOs-arent-
allowed-help-childre
n-cross-road-School-
told-pay-real-ones-5
9-hour-it.html

The Daily Mail, do me a favour.

Southendsmith wrote:
The Daily Mail, do me a favour.

What about the Beano?

This has turned into a conversation about how good/bad PCSO's are - but it misses the main point. If Police Forces have to cut their funding by 40% then looking at the figures above - getting rid of PCSO's is not going to cover it. Some people commenting on here have no idea as to how good/bad Essex Police actually are compared to other forces - check the internet. Essex is actually a 'cheap' force per head of the population of Essex. The problem is that Essex has made cuts already and will then find it hard to make a 40% cut again (compared with an 'expensive' force making the same cuts). Those who argue for a return to the beat bobby fail to understand small towns have grown into large towns and the police now deal with lots of things that either didn't exist years ago or weren't taken seriously (internet fraud, domestic violence, massive drug problems, child abuse - to name a few) The reality is that policing will have to change massively and some of the expectation on them will be removed. The fire service are expected to deal with fires, the Ambulance service deals with poorly people and the police are expected to do everything else - that is what will have to change. Basically, those that moan all the time the police aren't doing their job - will have a lot more to moan about in the future!

Police Officers can't be made redundant yet. It requires an Act of parliment as they are servents of the crown. The danger is making them employees will give them employees rights like the right to strike. It will be police staff like PCSO's and Support staff that will be first to get the chop then it will be PC's that are on the 30 Plus scheme or coming up to 30 years.

The final salary pension scheme in no longer sustainable whether they pay into it or not. All service employees will have to get used to the idea of a capped rate of pension, to a maximum of up to £250 per week, depending on rank and length of service.
It is a repugnant state of affairs. Some of these retirees are on £3500 per month!
PCSO's should go along with Street Wardens/Street Care Officers/Beer Mat Collectors and all these other "Nanny State" "Politically Correct" Jobs that have been engineered in the last 10 years.
The extra money saved should go to more proper "Full Monty", "Bobbies" on the beat, not these "Milky Bar Kids".

ShoeburyBlue wrote:
Police Officers can't be made redundant yet. It requires an Act of parliment as they are servents of the crown. The danger is making them employees will give them employees rights like the right to strike. It will be police staff like PCSO's and Support staff that will be first to get the chop then it will be PC's that are on the 30 Plus scheme or coming up to 30 years.

Not quite sure what point you are making, but if cuts do not fall on the police, they will fall somewhere else. Health? Education? take your pick.
The fact is the public sector are only just waking up to the brutal reality that everybody else has been living with for several years now.

daveyboy25 wrote:
how come they can cut something thats important to us all but they keep these waste of time free bus passes going that cost a fortune, they have cut everywhere else now its time to get rid of these god forsaken things

This is the simple solution! Remove my "free" bus pass (which I worked all my life for the priveledge of owning, and still pay my retes and taxes for the honour of using) and in a flash? will be back in the outside lane of the A127 at 45 mph in the 50 mph zone and twenty in the 30 mph, all to bring a slight smile to my lips when I see the youngsters behind me inventing those incredible signs they make with their hands. With the anticipation we show at traffic lights, should they be thinking abou switching to amber, the same caution when they turn to green, just in case some crazy fool comes through the other way 30 seconds or so after we see the green light etc. etc. Well, you can then take a lot of police off traffic duty as we enforce the rules so valiantly. Are you sure you want us back behind the wheel davey brat25?

Last Poster wrote:

daveyboy25 wrote: how come they can cut something thats important to us all but they keep these waste of time free bus passes going that cost a fortune, they have cut everywhere else now its time to get rid of these god forsaken things

This is the simple solution! Remove my "free" bus pass (which I worked all my life for the priveledge of owning, and still pay my retes and taxes for the honour of using) and in a flash? will be back in the outside lane of the A127 at 45 mph in the 50 mph zone and twenty in the 30 mph, all to bring a slight smile to my lips when I see the youngsters behind me inventing those incredible signs they make with their hands. With the anticipation we show at traffic lights, should they be thinking abou switching to amber, the same caution when they turn to green, just in case some crazy fool comes through the other way 30 seconds or so after we see the green light etc. etc. Well, you can then take a lot of police off traffic duty as we enforce the rules so valiantly. Are you sure you want us back behind the wheel davey brat25?

Hahaha, nice to see some humour.....

If not a car, maybe a mobilty scooter will do the same job - and be a lot more irritating.

ESSEX'S Chief Constable did not say PCs will be lost. In fact no PCs will ever be made reduntant under these cost cutting measures. He said the cuts "could prompt hundreds of job losses". Now there are a lot of civilian staff (inc. PCSOs) in all police forces accross the country. These are where the job cuts will be. It is all about scaremongering, along with a little spin from opposing interests, to say the number of police officers will be cut. The only officers in danger will be PCSOs and I cannot see their loss making much of a difference to street policing. There is a lot of wasted money in the police forces and to be made to clean this up will show up the mis management or extravigances that some police forces have in place in the past. For obvious reasons, this is why Chief Constables, and those opposing the Government, are being so vocal.

emcee wrote:
ESSEX'S Chief Constable did not say PCs will be lost. In fact no PCs will ever be made reduntant under these cost cutting measures. He said the cuts "could prompt hundreds of job losses". Now there are a lot of civilian staff (inc. PCSOs) in all police forces accross the country. These are where the job cuts will be. It is all about scaremongering, along with a little spin from opposing interests, to say the number of police officers will be cut. The only officers in danger will be PCSOs and I cannot see their loss making much of a difference to street policing. There is a lot of wasted money in the police forces and to be made to clean this up will show up the mis management or extravigances that some police forces have in place in the past. For obvious reasons, this is why Chief Constables, and those opposing the Government, are being so vocal.

A lot of PCs and Sgts do civilian jobs i.e training manager. these should go. not front line pcs and pcsos.

My friend who works in the local police station is going to be sacked.She works as a cashier, counts the coppers as they come in.

Great post, Last Poster! Thanks for making me smile :-)

Although sad to see people lose there job, i be think of the families this close to Christmas.

I have faith theyy would not do this if there was a risk to us.

I dont have a criminal mind but my first throught was not to go committ crime when i read this. was it many people i doubt it

What about,as was sugested some time ago,combining some of the police forces.Thus cutting the number of chief constables on massive pay and expences,plus expected pensions.But of course that will not happen.

As a Pcso I would like to thank those that rite with support for the job we do. Its great to hear that many people appreciate us. Majority of pcso's joined to try and help people in a different way the Police officers. Im not saying we are all perfect though. I have seen many officers, both Pc's and Pcso's that are not good at there job and let Police services down. But there are also many great officers to. In my time I have carried out hundreds jobs that would have taken a Pc off the street for even more time than they are now. I have caught hundreds and detained hundreds of wanted criminals and people carrying out crimes from shop lifting to attempted murder. I may not carry Cuffs and a Batton but would you rather me be there to call for back up when I catch someone or no one be there at all. Please remeber before you moan and critisize our role, and any police role for that matter, that its there to try and keep you all safe. Because many would rather sit back and moan about the ones trying than do something, than do something themselves !! Please also remember that when you slag off the police, who are the first people you call when your a victim of crime !!