Sir Bob criticised for Holocaust comments

Gazette: Sir Bob Russell Sir Bob Russell

COLCHESTER MP Sir Bob Russell has received scathing criticism for comments he has made about the holocaust.

In a Parliamentary debate on the national curriculum, Sir Bob said Israel’s treatment of Palestinians should be given equal attention to the genocide of six million Jews.

While Israel has received widespread condemnation of its treatment of Palestinians, critics say to compare this with the Nazi’s attempt to eradicate the Jewish race is wildly inaccurate and insulting.

One Lib Dem commentator pointed out Palestinians have a longer life expectancy than people in some parts of Scotland.

Karen Pollock, chief executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said: “To try to equate the events of the holocaust, the systemised mass murder of six million Jews, with the conflict in the Middle East is simply inaccurate.”

Matthew Harris, who writes for thecommentator.com, said: “There has been no genocide, no systematic attempt to wipe out every single person with ancestry from a particular ethnic group, so why suggest that there has?

“It is entirely inaccurate to compare the injustices suffered by Palestinians to the genocide suffered by Jews; to make such a comparison is to misunderstand the former and to trivialise the latter.”

Jeremy Newmark, of Britain's Jewish Leadership Council said the remarks are a shocking piece of Holocaust denigration.

He said: “There is simply no comparison between the two situations.”

Gavin Stollar, from Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel, described Sir Bob as a fringe, marginal voice.

Colchester Labour Party’s Jordan Newell said the remarks are deeply offensive and Will Quince, the Conservative parliamentary candidate for Colchester, the comparison is ignorant and deploarable.

Sir Bob Russell said he will treat comments from critics with contempt in the same way civilised society treated supporters of apartheid South Africa with disgust.

He said: “I have received messages of support from different parts of the world, including those of the Jewish faith who despair of what the State of Israel is doing.

“I have for years highlighted the plight of Palestinians so my comments in the House of Commons are consistent with what I have said in the past.

“The stark facts are that Israel, by its actions, is a racist state which practices apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

“It is in breach of United Nations Resolutions, International Law and the Geneva Convention.”

Mr Russell said he is astonished to hear Labour’s Mr Newell is siding with the apologists of Israel rather than supporting the down-trodden Palestinians.

He said: “That will come as a huge shock to Labour MPs such as Sir Gerald Kaufman and Richard Burden, chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Palestine Group.”

Sir Bob visited the Occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem in July 2011. Four years ago he raised money and donated £3,000 for the purchase of books for Palestinian children.

The Palestinian Mission in the UK declined to comment.

Comments (68)

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6:14pm Tue 16 Jul 13

seikothrill says...

Have to say Israel gets away with a lot being a state of the mighty U S of A.

Maybe a wrong comparison but I get what BR was trying to say
Have to say Israel gets away with a lot being a state of the mighty U S of A. Maybe a wrong comparison but I get what BR was trying to say seikothrill
  • Score: -3

6:21pm Tue 16 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

Perhaps Sir Bob knows a lot more than I do on the subject, having visted Palestine and not Israel. What I understand is based on what I have heard many times, that various arab states want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. By that I assume they mean by genocide. Whereas what I understand about Israel is that they just want a place to live in peace, whilst clearly demonstrating their will and ability to defend themselves. I can't blame them for that. But it does beg the question, one that I have often pondered when I read some of the appeasing left wing crap on these pages, if Hitler had been successful and had conquered us, would the appeasers have allowed him to eradicate all the Jews in Britain as well? Or are these appeasing cowards simply a product or our age?
Perhaps Sir Bob knows a lot more than I do on the subject, having visted Palestine and not Israel. What I understand is based on what I have heard many times, that various arab states want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. By that I assume they mean by genocide. Whereas what I understand about Israel is that they just want a place to live in peace, whilst clearly demonstrating their will and ability to defend themselves. I can't blame them for that. But it does beg the question, one that I have often pondered when I read some of the appeasing left wing crap on these pages, if Hitler had been successful and had conquered us, would the appeasers have allowed him to eradicate all the Jews in Britain as well? Or are these appeasing cowards simply a product or our age? Jess Jephcott
  • Score: 2

11:08pm Tue 16 Jul 13

stevedawson says...

A quick look at a map of the area for 1938 says more than words.
A quick look at a map of the area for 1938 says more than words. stevedawson
  • Score: 1

11:40pm Tue 16 Jul 13

Boris says...

I disagree with Sir Bob on many subjects, but I have to hand it to him, he has always been consistent in his support of the Palestinians, and his criticism of the flagrant injustices inflicted on them by the state of Israel.
Well done, Sir Bob.
I disagree with Sir Bob on many subjects, but I have to hand it to him, he has always been consistent in his support of the Palestinians, and his criticism of the flagrant injustices inflicted on them by the state of Israel. Well done, Sir Bob. Boris
  • Score: -2

11:58pm Tue 16 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

There is a very good reason why British school students should study the events of the Nakba and the attempted ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Zionist terrorist elements like the Haganah, Irgun and Stern Gang.
Britain, between 1917 and 1947 held a Mandate from the United Nations to administer the area of Palestine, which included protecting the Palestinians.
Britain failed miserably, allowing Zionist terrorists to murder or expel half the indigenous Palestinians from historic Palestine in 1947-1950.
This war crime has never been fully admitted to by Israel or Britain. Nor have Israel or Britain ever compensated the Palestinians who lost their lands and homes.
Even today, there are still millions of dispossessed Palestinians living in refugee camps all round the world.
Of course British students should know about this example of human inhumanity alongside similar events like the Holocaust - and don't forget that the Nazis also systematically murdered Roma, homosexuals, Poles, Russians and other Slavs, Freemasons, Jehovah Witnesses, and just about anyone else who would not fall in line with their authoritarian ideology.
Bob Russell is right in insisting that all forms of human atrocities should be exposed to study and understanding, as far as that is possible.
More recent events like Cambodia, Rwanda, Darfur, Syria and other similar events should also be paid due attention to.
There is a very good reason why British school students should study the events of the Nakba and the attempted ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Zionist terrorist elements like the Haganah, Irgun and Stern Gang. Britain, between 1917 and 1947 held a Mandate from the United Nations to administer the area of Palestine, which included protecting the Palestinians. Britain failed miserably, allowing Zionist terrorists to murder or expel half the indigenous Palestinians from historic Palestine in 1947-1950. This war crime has never been fully admitted to by Israel or Britain. Nor have Israel or Britain ever compensated the Palestinians who lost their lands and homes. Even today, there are still millions of dispossessed Palestinians living in refugee camps all round the world. Of course British students should know about this example of human inhumanity alongside similar events like the Holocaust - and don't forget that the Nazis also systematically murdered Roma, homosexuals, Poles, Russians and other Slavs, Freemasons, Jehovah Witnesses, and just about anyone else who would not fall in line with their authoritarian ideology. Bob Russell is right in insisting that all forms of human atrocities should be exposed to study and understanding, as far as that is possible. More recent events like Cambodia, Rwanda, Darfur, Syria and other similar events should also be paid due attention to. John Dowdle
  • Score: -3

6:41am Wed 17 Jul 13

rhetoric says...

Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel.
.
So far as is evident, that vow has not been
rescinded.
.
If you back a whole country into a corner,
or even one individual, you face a subject
fighting for its life.
.
Some wonder why the Jews of Europe didn't fight back harder and in a more unified way
against the Nazis at the outset. Now the israelis are being aggressively efficient the world wonders why.
.
It is good that the UK thinks of other, less settled and comfortable regions of the world as well as its own comfort and safety, but
this Myland boy has gone a step too far on behalf of some of his constituents. Stick
to sorting local issues if you can, Bob, and
when you have gone the full mile and seen
through one or two issues to their conclusion, you might justify spending time on foreign affairs.
.
Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel. . So far as is evident, that vow has not been rescinded. . If you back a whole country into a corner, or even one individual, you face a subject fighting for its life. . Some wonder why the Jews of Europe didn't fight back harder and in a more unified way against the Nazis at the outset. Now the israelis are being aggressively efficient the world wonders why. . It is good that the UK thinks of other, less settled and comfortable regions of the world as well as its own comfort and safety, but this Myland boy has gone a step too far on behalf of some of his constituents. Stick to sorting local issues if you can, Bob, and when you have gone the full mile and seen through one or two issues to their conclusion, you might justify spending time on foreign affairs. . rhetoric
  • Score: 3

8:15am Wed 17 Jul 13

Stubizz says...

Readers have just been treated to a vivid example of what happens when someone - even an MP - so much as hints at the Israeli regime's crimes against humanity in the Holy Land.

Britain as the military power, and later the mandatory power in Palestine, is largely responsible for creating the appalling situation. British schoolchildren ought to be taught the truth about Britain's complicity and the 65 years of injustice and living hell inflicted on Christians and their Muslim brothers and sisters in the land where Christianity was born, and how this impacts on world peace. Like the Jewish holocaust, it must never be allowed to happen again.

People are beginning to suspect they've been fed propaganda lies. One of many big lies is that Iran's Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" (referred to by Jess). This is a gross distortion. In a speech he quoted the words of Ayatollah Khomeini, that "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". British and US politicians supporting Israel's warmongering regime keep repeating this lie which, as Jess here shows, is very effective.

Perhaps 'rhetoric' could give us chapter and verse on the Palestinian "wipe out" vow?
Readers have just been treated to a vivid example of what happens when someone - even an MP - so much as hints at the Israeli regime's crimes against humanity in the Holy Land. Britain as the military power, and later the mandatory power in Palestine, is largely responsible for creating the appalling situation. British schoolchildren ought to be taught the truth about Britain's complicity and the 65 years of injustice and living hell inflicted on Christians and their Muslim brothers and sisters in the land where Christianity was born, and how this impacts on world peace. Like the Jewish holocaust, it must never be allowed to happen again. People are beginning to suspect they've been fed propaganda lies. One of many big lies is that Iran's Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" (referred to by Jess). This is a gross distortion. In a speech he quoted the words of Ayatollah Khomeini, that "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". British and US politicians supporting Israel's warmongering regime keep repeating this lie which, as Jess here shows, is very effective. Perhaps 'rhetoric' could give us chapter and verse on the Palestinian "wipe out" vow? Stubizz
  • Score: -4

10:08am Wed 17 Jul 13

common sense or not says...

I have always liked Bob Russell even if I don't share all his politics but he has gone too far now. When Israel have killed 6 million Palestinians I might change my mind.

I have traveled in Israel and seen how all the factions live and behave. Look for yourself before you judge but watch out just on case Palestinians stone your bus.
I have always liked Bob Russell even if I don't share all his politics but he has gone too far now. When Israel have killed 6 million Palestinians I might change my mind. I have traveled in Israel and seen how all the factions live and behave. Look for yourself before you judge but watch out just on case Palestinians stone your bus. common sense or not
  • Score: 5

10:25am Wed 17 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

Reading the 'They work for You' website it could be concluded that Sir Bob's main interests are the MOD and the Palestinians. It suggests that Sir Bob is less interested in all his Colchester constituents than perhaps he should be and perhaps needs to adjust his priorities to represent all his Colchester constituents equally.
Reading the 'They work for You' website it could be concluded that Sir Bob's main interests are the MOD and the Palestinians. It suggests that Sir Bob is less interested in all his Colchester constituents than perhaps he should be and perhaps needs to adjust his priorities to represent all his Colchester constituents equally. jacklumber1
  • Score: 4

11:54am Wed 17 Jul 13

Stubizz says...

'Common sense or not' has travelled to Israel. But did he go to Palestine and especially Gaza? I suspect he was on an Israel-sponsored trip like most of our MPs and prevented from seeing the truth. Israel has created 5 million Arab refugees scattered in 58 registered camps. Israel refuses to let them return home. Those remaining in the Occupied Territories are under brutal military occupation and blockade.

"When Israel have killed 6 million Palestinians I might change my mind." What an idiotic thing to say. What have the Palestinians to do with the Holocaust? And what right has Israel to murder a single one of them?
'Common sense or not' has travelled to Israel. But did he go to Palestine and especially Gaza? I suspect he was on an Israel-sponsored trip like most of our MPs and prevented from seeing the truth. Israel has created 5 million Arab refugees scattered in 58 registered camps. Israel refuses to let them return home. Those remaining in the Occupied Territories are under brutal military occupation and blockade. "When Israel have killed 6 million Palestinians I might change my mind." What an idiotic thing to say. What have the Palestinians to do with the Holocaust? And what right has Israel to murder a single one of them? Stubizz
  • Score: -4

12:56pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

This is the actual text of the MP's question during the 8 July national curriculum debate, as reported in Hansard: "Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The Secretary of State referred to more coverage of world history. On the assumption that the 20th century will include the holocaust, will he give me an assurance that the life of Palestinians since 1948 will be given equal attention?" He was absolutely right to request this assurance. Our education of history is extremely lop-sided. The MP was not saying that what is happening to the Palestinians is the same as the Holocaust. He was calling for “equal attention” to be given to their part in recent history. Not because the atrocities committed against them are of equal horror, but because they are of equal importance to our understanding of history. Of course it is right that children in each new generation should be told about the Holocaust. But they already are. It is covered in text books, in radio and TV programmes, in films, books, and artistic creations of every kind. But how many children have ever even heard of Palestine, let alone know about the ongoing suffering of the Palestinians?
Perhaps the main reason why Karen Pollock dedicates herself to keeping alive our collective guilt about the Holocaust is this: so that we transmute that guilt into indulgence for Israel and turn a blind eye to - or even forgive - what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
This is the actual text of the MP's question during the 8 July national curriculum debate, as reported in Hansard: "Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The Secretary of State referred to more coverage of world history. On the assumption that the 20th century will include the holocaust, will he give me an assurance that the life of Palestinians since 1948 will be given equal attention?" He was absolutely right to request this assurance. Our education of history is extremely lop-sided. The MP was not saying that what is happening to the Palestinians is the same as the Holocaust. He was calling for “equal attention” to be given to their part in recent history. Not because the atrocities committed against them are of equal horror, but because they are of equal importance to our understanding of history. Of course it is right that children in each new generation should be told about the Holocaust. But they already are. It is covered in text books, in radio and TV programmes, in films, books, and artistic creations of every kind. But how many children have ever even heard of Palestine, let alone know about the ongoing suffering of the Palestinians? Perhaps the main reason why Karen Pollock dedicates herself to keeping alive our collective guilt about the Holocaust is this: so that we transmute that guilt into indulgence for Israel and turn a blind eye to - or even forgive - what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: -4

1:13pm Wed 17 Jul 13

zt00013 says...

Good on Bob!

The gazette unable to provide even the most basic analysis into the story, who pays these journalists?
Good on Bob! The gazette unable to provide even the most basic analysis into the story, who pays these journalists? zt00013
  • Score: -3

2:03pm Wed 17 Jul 13

wardyt says...

For the first time ever, I agree with Bob.
For the first time ever, I agree with Bob. wardyt
  • Score: -3

3:45pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

What do we have here? The Gazette gives us - In a Parliamentary debate on the national curriculum, Sir Bob said Israel’s treatment of Palestinians should be given equal attention to the genocide of six million Jews.
.
Elizabeth Morley gives us - Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The Secretary of State referred to more coverage of world history. On the assumption that the 20th century will include the holocaust, will he give me an assurance than the life of Palestinians since 1948 will be given equal attention?
.
Is it me or does this not seem to be a case of our MP attacking Israel? Isn't he simply pointing out the very real (some might say self-inflicted) plight of the Palestinians, worthy of mention in history books for the 20th century? Surely, if the latter were of a more reasonable disposition, everybody could live together for the common good in the same lands. Israel deserves a homeland, just like anybody else. Europe killed 6 million of them in the 1940s. England played its own part in killing jews in medieval times too. Understandably they took appropriate action after the war and forcibly took land for a new home. Who are we to condemn them? There is not intent on their part to wipe out the Palestinians as far as I am aware. Would it were that the other side felt the same.
What do we have here? The Gazette gives us - In a Parliamentary debate on the national curriculum, Sir Bob said Israel’s treatment of Palestinians should be given equal attention to the genocide of six million Jews. . Elizabeth Morley gives us - Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The Secretary of State referred to more coverage of world history. On the assumption that the 20th century will include the holocaust, will he give me an assurance than the life of Palestinians since 1948 will be given equal attention? . Is it me or does this not seem to be a case of our MP attacking Israel? Isn't he simply pointing out the very real (some might say self-inflicted) plight of the Palestinians, worthy of mention in history books for the 20th century? Surely, if the latter were of a more reasonable disposition, everybody could live together for the common good in the same lands. Israel deserves a homeland, just like anybody else. Europe killed 6 million of them in the 1940s. England played its own part in killing jews in medieval times too. Understandably they took appropriate action after the war and forcibly took land for a new home. Who are we to condemn them? There is not intent on their part to wipe out the Palestinians as far as I am aware. Would it were that the other side felt the same. Jess Jephcott
  • Score: 1

5:18pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Harry Caine says...

Jess Jephcott wrote:
Perhaps Sir Bob knows a lot more than I do on the subject, having visted Palestine and not Israel. What I understand is based on what I have heard many times, that various arab states want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. By that I assume they mean by genocide. Whereas what I understand about Israel is that they just want a place to live in peace, whilst clearly demonstrating their will and ability to defend themselves. I can't blame them for that. But it does beg the question, one that I have often pondered when I read some of the appeasing left wing crap on these pages, if Hitler had been successful and had conquered us, would the appeasers have allowed him to eradicate all the Jews in Britain as well? Or are these appeasing cowards simply a product or our age?
Can we have a primary source of exactly where and when any leader of any Arab nation has declared "hat various arab states want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth"?

Most sources are supporters of the Zionist Plan Dalat, the ethnic cleaning of historical Palstine and accordingly choose to put their own interpretation of Arabic and Farsi quotations, which are invariably complete misrepresentations of the truth.

Upwards of 12 million souls perished in the Holocaust but we never seem to hear about the Polish Christians, Homosexuals, Roma, Disabled People, Trade Unionist, Political Dissidents, Russian POW's and many others, do we?

I wish that we had an MP like Bob who speaks as he finds things rather than the grovelling apologists focused on Hertfordshire
[quote][p][bold]Jess Jephcott[/bold] wrote: Perhaps Sir Bob knows a lot more than I do on the subject, having visted Palestine and not Israel. What I understand is based on what I have heard many times, that various arab states want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. By that I assume they mean by genocide. Whereas what I understand about Israel is that they just want a place to live in peace, whilst clearly demonstrating their will and ability to defend themselves. I can't blame them for that. But it does beg the question, one that I have often pondered when I read some of the appeasing left wing crap on these pages, if Hitler had been successful and had conquered us, would the appeasers have allowed him to eradicate all the Jews in Britain as well? Or are these appeasing cowards simply a product or our age?[/p][/quote]Can we have a primary source of exactly where and when any leader of any Arab nation has declared "hat various arab states want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth"? Most sources are supporters of the Zionist Plan Dalat, the ethnic cleaning of historical Palstine and accordingly choose to put their own interpretation of Arabic and Farsi quotations, which are invariably complete misrepresentations of the truth. Upwards of 12 million souls perished in the Holocaust but we never seem to hear about the Polish Christians, Homosexuals, Roma, Disabled People, Trade Unionist, Political Dissidents, Russian POW's and many others, do we? I wish that we had an MP like Bob who speaks as he finds things rather than the grovelling apologists focused on Hertfordshire Harry Caine
  • Score: -2

5:20pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Harry Caine says...

rhetoric wrote:
Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel.
.
So far as is evident, that vow has not been
rescinded.
.
If you back a whole country into a corner,
or even one individual, you face a subject
fighting for its life.
.
Some wonder why the Jews of Europe didn't fight back harder and in a more unified way
against the Nazis at the outset. Now the israelis are being aggressively efficient the world wonders why.
.
It is good that the UK thinks of other, less settled and comfortable regions of the world as well as its own comfort and safety, but
this Myland boy has gone a step too far on behalf of some of his constituents. Stick
to sorting local issues if you can, Bob, and
when you have gone the full mile and seen
through one or two issues to their conclusion, you might justify spending time on foreign affairs.
.
"Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel"

Can we have an attributed source for this wild statement?

Clearly not because it isn't true
[quote][p][bold]rhetoric[/bold] wrote: Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel. . So far as is evident, that vow has not been rescinded. . If you back a whole country into a corner, or even one individual, you face a subject fighting for its life. . Some wonder why the Jews of Europe didn't fight back harder and in a more unified way against the Nazis at the outset. Now the israelis are being aggressively efficient the world wonders why. . It is good that the UK thinks of other, less settled and comfortable regions of the world as well as its own comfort and safety, but this Myland boy has gone a step too far on behalf of some of his constituents. Stick to sorting local issues if you can, Bob, and when you have gone the full mile and seen through one or two issues to their conclusion, you might justify spending time on foreign affairs. .[/p][/quote]"Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel" Can we have an attributed source for this wild statement? Clearly not because it isn't true Harry Caine
  • Score: -2

5:35pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Harry Caine says...

rhetoric wrote:
Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel.
.
So far as is evident, that vow has not been
rescinded.
.
If you back a whole country into a corner,
or even one individual, you face a subject
fighting for its life.
.
Some wonder why the Jews of Europe didn't fight back harder and in a more unified way
against the Nazis at the outset. Now the israelis are being aggressively efficient the world wonders why.
.
It is good that the UK thinks of other, less settled and comfortable regions of the world as well as its own comfort and safety, but
this Myland boy has gone a step too far on behalf of some of his constituents. Stick
to sorting local issues if you can, Bob, and
when you have gone the full mile and seen
through one or two issues to their conclusion, you might justify spending time on foreign affairs.
.
The fact is that there is evidence that Zionist assisted Nazi Germany to circumvent sanctions and did little to help their fellow Jews or anyone else for that matter held in the Death Camps.

Perhaps readers should realise that Zionism did not come about as a result of the Holocaust which it's founding pre-dates by almost 50 years.

Arguably, Zionists cite the Holocaust to the less well informed, as some kind of excuse for their ethnic cleansing and subjugation of the Palestinian People 7.5 million of whom, according to the UN, are now refugees
[quote][p][bold]rhetoric[/bold] wrote: Historically the Palestinians vowed to wipe out every Israeli man, woman and child from the face of Israel. . So far as is evident, that vow has not been rescinded. . If you back a whole country into a corner, or even one individual, you face a subject fighting for its life. . Some wonder why the Jews of Europe didn't fight back harder and in a more unified way against the Nazis at the outset. Now the israelis are being aggressively efficient the world wonders why. . It is good that the UK thinks of other, less settled and comfortable regions of the world as well as its own comfort and safety, but this Myland boy has gone a step too far on behalf of some of his constituents. Stick to sorting local issues if you can, Bob, and when you have gone the full mile and seen through one or two issues to their conclusion, you might justify spending time on foreign affairs. .[/p][/quote]The fact is that there is evidence that Zionist assisted Nazi Germany to circumvent sanctions and did little to help their fellow Jews or anyone else for that matter held in the Death Camps. Perhaps readers should realise that Zionism did not come about as a result of the Holocaust which it's founding pre-dates by almost 50 years. Arguably, Zionists cite the Holocaust to the less well informed, as some kind of excuse for their ethnic cleansing and subjugation of the Palestinian People 7.5 million of whom, according to the UN, are now refugees Harry Caine
  • Score: -3

5:48pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

I recall Yasser Arafat talking about wiping out Israel but have no actual quote. I guess that, were it said, the pro-Israel lobby would have it recorded someplace.
I recall Yasser Arafat talking about wiping out Israel but have no actual quote. I guess that, were it said, the pro-Israel lobby would have it recorded someplace. Jess Jephcott
  • Score: 1

10:12pm Wed 17 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Jess Jephcot above talks about the 'self-inflicted' plight of the Palestinians which led to the Nakba (Arabic word for Catastrophe).
Perhaps Jess can explain how the Palestinians were involved in the Sykes-Picot Agreement 1916 and the Balfour Declaration, issued in 1917?
Come on Jess, declare your vast knowledge on these subject areas.
Jess Jephcot above talks about the 'self-inflicted' plight of the Palestinians which led to the Nakba (Arabic word for Catastrophe). Perhaps Jess can explain how the Palestinians were involved in the Sykes-Picot Agreement 1916 and the Balfour Declaration, issued in 1917? Come on Jess, declare your vast knowledge on these subject areas. John Dowdle
  • Score: -1

10:57pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Corporalrisk says...

Whilst i think he was a bit over the top, he is right in that the Isrealis act with no regard for others in palestine.
They should have learnt the lesson.
Nasty race of people with chips on both shoulders
Whilst i think he was a bit over the top, he is right in that the Isrealis act with no regard for others in palestine. They should have learnt the lesson. Nasty race of people with chips on both shoulders Corporalrisk
  • Score: -3

1:12am Thu 18 Jul 13

Mind your own business says...

Well done Bob Russell
Well done Bob Russell Mind your own business
  • Score: -3

5:32am Thu 18 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Corporalrisk says...
10:57pm Wed 17 Jul 13

"Whilst i think he was a bit over the top, he is right in that the Isrealis act with no regard for others in palestine.
They should have learnt the lesson.
Nasty race of people with chips on both shoulders” -

Why was this racist comment allowed to stand by Moderator?
Corporalrisk says... 10:57pm Wed 17 Jul 13 "Whilst i think he was a bit over the top, he is right in that the Isrealis act with no regard for others in palestine. They should have learnt the lesson. Nasty race of people with chips on both shoulders” - Why was this racist comment allowed to stand by Moderator? Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

5:34am Thu 18 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Corporalrisk says...
10:57pm Wed 17 Jul 13

Whilst i think he was a bit over the top, he is right in that the Isrealis act with no regard for others in palestine.
They should have learnt the lesson.
Nasty race of people with chips on both shoulders”

Why was this racist comment allowed?
Corporalrisk says... 10:57pm Wed 17 Jul 13 Whilst i think he was a bit over the top, he is right in that the Isrealis act with no regard for others in palestine. They should have learnt the lesson. Nasty race of people with chips on both shoulders” Why was this racist comment allowed? Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 3

9:59am Thu 18 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

It wasn't a racist comment. It was simply fair comment. As to John Dowdle's barb, I have no interest whatsoever in past history or nitpicking about what the British did or did not do. What does concern me is the tension in the Middle East now and how it can be resolved. Of course, there is no solution, other than the destruction of Israel, that will settle the matter, following which the arabs will revert to their inbuilt hatred of each other. The arabs are a cursed race and we must keep well clear of them.
It wasn't a racist comment. It was simply fair comment. As to John Dowdle's barb, I have no interest whatsoever in past history or nitpicking about what the British did or did not do. What does concern me is the tension in the Middle East now and how it can be resolved. Of course, there is no solution, other than the destruction of Israel, that will settle the matter, following which the arabs will revert to their inbuilt hatred of each other. The arabs are a cursed race and we must keep well clear of them. Jess Jephcott
  • Score: -3

10:18am Thu 18 Jul 13

michaeldevine says...

Awful reporting as is often the case. These aren't "Holocaust" comments at all, but instead on the brutal treatment since 1948 of the Palestinians by Israelis.

Over 1.5 million were made refugees in the Nakba in 1948, and thousands have been injured or killed since by the IDF or by settlers.

The only way that these comments denigrate the suffering of the Holocaust is if you believe that a Palestinian life is not worth as much as the life of a European Jew.
Awful reporting as is often the case. These aren't "Holocaust" comments at all, but instead on the brutal treatment since 1948 of the Palestinians by Israelis. Over 1.5 million were made refugees in the Nakba in 1948, and thousands have been injured or killed since by the IDF or by settlers. The only way that these comments denigrate the suffering of the Holocaust is if you believe that a Palestinian life is not worth as much as the life of a European Jew. michaeldevine
  • Score: -2

10:25am Thu 18 Jul 13

mr pants says...

I am very willing to accept the limits of my knowledge on this topic, what a great pity that our grandstanding buffoon of an MP can't do the same. His "expertise" is limited to Colchester United, when he strays away from that he quickly puts both feet in his mouth.
I am very willing to accept the limits of my knowledge on this topic, what a great pity that our grandstanding buffoon of an MP can't do the same. His "expertise" is limited to Colchester United, when he strays away from that he quickly puts both feet in his mouth. mr pants
  • Score: 1

11:55am Thu 18 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Jess Jephcott says...
9:59am Thu 18 Jul 13

It wasn't a racist comment. It was simply fair comment. As to John Dowdle's barb, I have no interest whatsoever in past history or nitpicking about what the British did or did not do. What does concern me is the tension in the Middle East now and how it can be resolved. Of course, there is no solution, other than the destruction of Israel, that will settle the matter, following which the arabs will revert to their inbuilt hatred of each other. The arabs are a cursed race and we must keep well clear of them.”

Another racist comment!
Jess Jephcott says... 9:59am Thu 18 Jul 13 It wasn't a racist comment. It was simply fair comment. As to John Dowdle's barb, I have no interest whatsoever in past history or nitpicking about what the British did or did not do. What does concern me is the tension in the Middle East now and how it can be resolved. Of course, there is no solution, other than the destruction of Israel, that will settle the matter, following which the arabs will revert to their inbuilt hatred of each other. The arabs are a cursed race and we must keep well clear of them.” Another racist comment! Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Thu 18 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

The arabs are only cursed with their own lack of tolerance.
I lived and worked on the oil fields I met many good ordinary arabs. But its the intolerant zealots who cause the problems.
They are in their 15th century, the west is in its 21 century. Look how intolerant the west is and how some countries want to dominate and shoot each other.
The west doesn't exactly set a good example and its people are just as intolerant.
I also lived in a Buddhist country which I found the most tolerant.
But while politicians and press demonise other peoples that intolerance will only increase and its a step back towards chaos anarchy unrest and a step towards disaster!
The west fails to learn from the lesson of what's going on in the middle east!
The arabs are only cursed with their own lack of tolerance. I lived and worked on the oil fields I met many good ordinary arabs. But its the intolerant zealots who cause the problems. They are in their 15th century, the west is in its 21 century. Look how intolerant the west is and how some countries want to dominate and shoot each other. The west doesn't exactly set a good example and its people are just as intolerant. I also lived in a Buddhist country which I found the most tolerant. But while politicians and press demonise other peoples that intolerance will only increase and its a step back towards chaos anarchy unrest and a step towards disaster! The west fails to learn from the lesson of what's going on in the middle east! jacklumber1
  • Score: 1

12:48pm Thu 18 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

Some people need to learn what the word racist actually means. Look it up Elizabeth, rather than applying your own woolly liberal definition. Your presumed intention of telling us how to think is presumably designed to prevent discussion of this very important subject. Big Sister is watching us.
Some people need to learn what the word racist actually means. Look it up Elizabeth, rather than applying your own woolly liberal definition. Your presumed intention of telling us how to think is presumably designed to prevent discussion of this very important subject. Big Sister is watching us. Jess Jephcott
  • Score: -2

1:33pm Thu 18 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

The very important subject I would like discussed is not this race or that race, but the injustices suffered by the Palestinian people and why our education has airbrushed them out.
The very important subject I would like discussed is not this race or that race, but the injustices suffered by the Palestinian people and why our education has airbrushed them out. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: -2

2:42pm Thu 18 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

There are two points that arise from some of the comments to this article, particularly the remarks by Jess.
He says ' I have no interest whatsoever in past history or nitpicking about what the British did or did not do.' This is an indication that he is either too ignorant or too lazy - or both - to substantiate his earlier claim that the plight of the Palestinians is 'self-inflicted'.
Of course, I could be being too critical and the real truth may be that Jess lacks the intelligence to apply himself to careful study of the history and contemporary situation in Palestine. In which case, we should all simply dismiss any of his remarks as low-brow hasbara propaganda.
He speaks but someone else puts the words into his mouth.
The second point is pedagogical.
While everyone agrees that the Nazi holocaust should be taught to young people in order that we none of us ever forget it happened in order to ensure it never happens again, Sir Bob is right to ask for a broader curriculum which includes the Zionist Holocaust on the Palestinians and the Nakba events that led to half their population being murdered or expelled from their own lands and homes in Palestine.
If we learn anything from the Nazi holocaust it is that such behaviour should never be tolerated ever again, and this applies equally to the Zionist state of Israel as it does to the Nazi state of Germany.
There are two points that arise from some of the comments to this article, particularly the remarks by Jess. He says ' I have no interest whatsoever in past history or nitpicking about what the British did or did not do.' This is an indication that he is either too ignorant or too lazy - or both - to substantiate his earlier claim that the plight of the Palestinians is 'self-inflicted'. Of course, I could be being too critical and the real truth may be that Jess lacks the intelligence to apply himself to careful study of the history and contemporary situation in Palestine. In which case, we should all simply dismiss any of his remarks as low-brow hasbara propaganda. He speaks but someone else puts the words into his mouth. The second point is pedagogical. While everyone agrees that the Nazi holocaust should be taught to young people in order that we none of us ever forget it happened in order to ensure it never happens again, Sir Bob is right to ask for a broader curriculum which includes the Zionist Holocaust on the Palestinians and the Nakba events that led to half their population being murdered or expelled from their own lands and homes in Palestine. If we learn anything from the Nazi holocaust it is that such behaviour should never be tolerated ever again, and this applies equally to the Zionist state of Israel as it does to the Nazi state of Germany. John Dowdle
  • Score: -1

3:25pm Thu 18 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Sir Bob has just made an 8 min speech in Parliament condemning the media for ignoring the imminent ethnic cleansing of 60,000 Bedouin from their ancestral lands. He appealed to world leaders to stop it going ahead. He urged everyone to read John McCarthy's "You Can't Hide the Sun". Sir Bob Stewart stood up while Sir Bob was speaking and emphatically put it on the record that he strenuously condemns what Israel is doing to the Bedouin.
Sir Bob has just made an 8 min speech in Parliament condemning the media for ignoring the imminent ethnic cleansing of 60,000 Bedouin from their ancestral lands. He appealed to world leaders to stop it going ahead. He urged everyone to read John McCarthy's "You Can't Hide the Sun". Sir Bob Stewart stood up while Sir Bob was speaking and emphatically put it on the record that he strenuously condemns what Israel is doing to the Bedouin. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

3:25pm Thu 18 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Sir Bob has just made an 8 min speech in Parliament condemning the media for ignoring the imminent ethnic cleansing of 60,000 Bedouin from their ancestral lands. He appealed to world leaders to stop it going ahead. He urged everyone to read John McCarthy's "You Can't Hide the Sun". Sir Bob Stewart stood up while Sir Bob was speaking and emphatically put it on the record that he strenuously condemns what Israel is doing to the Bedouin.
Sir Bob has just made an 8 min speech in Parliament condemning the media for ignoring the imminent ethnic cleansing of 60,000 Bedouin from their ancestral lands. He appealed to world leaders to stop it going ahead. He urged everyone to read John McCarthy's "You Can't Hide the Sun". Sir Bob Stewart stood up while Sir Bob was speaking and emphatically put it on the record that he strenuously condemns what Israel is doing to the Bedouin. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

5:29pm Thu 18 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

My comment about self-inflicted stems from the Palestinians refusal to assimilate with the Israelis. The Romans invaded Britain and we were powerless to stop it happening. We got used to them and assimilated and became part of the Roman Empire. Even Caratacus gave in to Roman power and became a Roman citizen. We showed tolerance and life became good. If the Palestinians were prepared to share the land, everybody could be happy puppies. However, they wish to destroy Israel rather than to live with it. Just as the moslems in this country will not assimilate with us and want sharia law and the covering up of our women. These people are not nice. Leave them well alone and quit encouraging them. They will not change and will eventually destroy themselves with their tribalism.
My comment about self-inflicted stems from the Palestinians refusal to assimilate with the Israelis. The Romans invaded Britain and we were powerless to stop it happening. We got used to them and assimilated and became part of the Roman Empire. Even Caratacus gave in to Roman power and became a Roman citizen. We showed tolerance and life became good. If the Palestinians were prepared to share the land, everybody could be happy puppies. However, they wish to destroy Israel rather than to live with it. Just as the moslems in this country will not assimilate with us and want sharia law and the covering up of our women. These people are not nice. Leave them well alone and quit encouraging them. They will not change and will eventually destroy themselves with their tribalism. Jess Jephcott
  • Score: 0

5:58pm Thu 18 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Jess reveals even more ignorance with his remarks about Palestinians 'self-inflicting' their plight on themselves.
The Jews were assimilated with the local Palestinians, as were Christians and non-religious for centuries, if not millennia, before the Zionists turned up on the scene and poisoned life for everyone - including Jews - there.
He refuses to trouble his brain cell by investigating British involvement in the situation in historic Palestine.
He cites an example of the Roman invasion of ancient Britain. They eventually left, just as they did from historic Palestine. Not only them but also the ancient Hebrews, Greeks, Romans, Turks and British have all come and gone from the area of Canaan over thousands of years.
The Zionists too will end up leaving historic Palestine; it is just a matter of time before Zionist Israel self-destructs, so why should the Palestinians accommodate themselves to this latest set of colonialists?
Tolerance in this country and across the rest of Europe developed in the 16th Century - long after the Romans had left Britain. This really is a very poor example to utilise by Jess.
He talks about Palestinians 'sharing their land'. OK, then, I am sure all the homeless in his area will be more than happy to know that they can go round to his house and stay there indefinitely. He will be more than happy to tolerate their little quirks, like smashing his front door down at 3 or 4 in the morning and dragging his children off into indefinite detention for months or even years at a time - because that is how the Israel occupation forces behave in the West Bank area virtually every single day.
Would you be happy to live under those circumstances - Jess?
The Palestinians do not want to 'destroy' Israel; they just want to be left in peace, free to lead their lives as they wish.
Is that such a terrible thing, Jess?
Have you heard what Israel Minister Danon recently said about the two-state solution, Jess?
Remind us as to what he said about the two-state solution, Jess.
Go on, Jess: let's all see if your one brain cell is up to this simple task.
Jess reveals even more ignorance with his remarks about Palestinians 'self-inflicting' their plight on themselves. The Jews were assimilated with the local Palestinians, as were Christians and non-religious for centuries, if not millennia, before the Zionists turned up on the scene and poisoned life for everyone - including Jews - there. He refuses to trouble his brain cell by investigating British involvement in the situation in historic Palestine. He cites an example of the Roman invasion of ancient Britain. They eventually left, just as they did from historic Palestine. Not only them but also the ancient Hebrews, Greeks, Romans, Turks and British have all come and gone from the area of Canaan over thousands of years. The Zionists too will end up leaving historic Palestine; it is just a matter of time before Zionist Israel self-destructs, so why should the Palestinians accommodate themselves to this latest set of colonialists? Tolerance in this country and across the rest of Europe developed in the 16th Century - long after the Romans had left Britain. This really is a very poor example to utilise by Jess. He talks about Palestinians 'sharing their land'. OK, then, I am sure all the homeless in his area will be more than happy to know that they can go round to his house and stay there indefinitely. He will be more than happy to tolerate their little quirks, like smashing his front door down at 3 or 4 in the morning and dragging his children off into indefinite detention for months or even years at a time - because that is how the Israel occupation forces behave in the West Bank area virtually every single day. Would you be happy to live under those circumstances - Jess? The Palestinians do not want to 'destroy' Israel; they just want to be left in peace, free to lead their lives as they wish. Is that such a terrible thing, Jess? Have you heard what Israel Minister Danon recently said about the two-state solution, Jess? Remind us as to what he said about the two-state solution, Jess. Go on, Jess: let's all see if your one brain cell is up to this simple task. John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

6:23pm Thu 18 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Thank you John for having the patience to talk again to this person. I have no more patience with such ignorance. Why doesn't he go to the West Bank and watch peaceful protesters shot at? Or to Gaza, which even David Cameron has called a prison camp. Or to the Negev, to watch as the Bedouin are forcibly removed from their ancient lands which their families have lived on for generations, to make room for Jewish immigrants who have nothing but a mythical connection with the land.
Thank you John for having the patience to talk again to this person. I have no more patience with such ignorance. Why doesn't he go to the West Bank and watch peaceful protesters shot at? Or to Gaza, which even David Cameron has called a prison camp. Or to the Negev, to watch as the Bedouin are forcibly removed from their ancient lands which their families have lived on for generations, to make room for Jewish immigrants who have nothing but a mythical connection with the land. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

6:30pm Thu 18 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

I suggest the comment by Jess that 'the muslims in this country will not assimilate with us, want sharia law and to cover up our women' is quite wrong. Some muslims may, the extremists. But to generalise and include all muslims shows a lack of knowledge and understanding let alone prejudice.What they want is the same as us. Which is to lead their own lives, live with their own religion and live in peace with every one.
The extremists want to carry out their Jihad because that's how they have been indoctrinated. I am anglo saxon born and bred Brit. My experience of islam in Saudi taught me every muslim isn't a Jihadist. Every Brit should be more open minded and understand we all live in the same world and to erect barriers to understanding is self defeatist! To be prejudised is downright ignorant!
I suggest the comment by Jess that 'the muslims in this country will not assimilate with us, want sharia law and to cover up our women' is quite wrong. Some muslims may, the extremists. But to generalise and include all muslims shows a lack of knowledge and understanding let alone prejudice.What they want is the same as us. Which is to lead their own lives, live with their own religion and live in peace with every one. The extremists want to carry out their Jihad because that's how they have been indoctrinated. I am anglo saxon born and bred Brit. My experience of islam in Saudi taught me every muslim isn't a Jihadist. Every Brit should be more open minded and understand we all live in the same world and to erect barriers to understanding is self defeatist! To be prejudised is downright ignorant! jacklumber1
  • Score: 0

10:18am Fri 19 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

You miss the point of my ignorance. I don't care. They are naturally belligerent people and they must find their own accommodation, just as we were forced to do under Roman rule. We, as a nation, should mind our own business. The strong will always dominate, so by talking about the reasonable majority is just plain naive. The majority of Germans were good people but look what happened there.
You miss the point of my ignorance. I don't care. They are naturally belligerent people and they must find their own accommodation, just as we were forced to do under Roman rule. We, as a nation, should mind our own business. The strong will always dominate, so by talking about the reasonable majority is just plain naive. The majority of Germans were good people but look what happened there. Jess Jephcott
  • Score: 0

11:27am Fri 19 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

Jess sorry you miss the point of your own ignorance. What you are projecting is that of prehistoric man where its dog eat dog. In am modern progressive world we should be striving for understanding tolerance and respect. You advocate the opposite which leads to even further strife. Thats what is going on in Syria and other countries. The strongest winning is progress its medaieval! Seems you need to modernise! If you don't care why blog on this site? Why not just stew in your own admitted ignorance?
Jess sorry you miss the point of your own ignorance. What you are projecting is that of prehistoric man where its dog eat dog. In am modern progressive world we should be striving for understanding tolerance and respect. You advocate the opposite which leads to even further strife. Thats what is going on in Syria and other countries. The strongest winning is progress its medaieval! Seems you need to modernise! If you don't care why blog on this site? Why not just stew in your own admitted ignorance? jacklumber1
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Fri 19 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

An interesting stance Jack. I see our boys being killed by these people and I want an end to it. You seem to want us to go in gung-ho and sort out a situation that can only be resolved by time. I see people like you wanting to poke their nose in a conflict that history tells us to stay well clear of. In a modern progressive world, I am all for us (presumably you mean the UK) to be striving for understanding, tolerance and respect. As long as it stops there. Tony Blair and do-gooders like I assume you are, have done a huge amount of damage to world peace by interfering in the Middle East, in recent years. Wouldn't it be better if we campaigned to get our boys home and to make it law to stay out of foreign countries, unless they threaten us?
An interesting stance Jack. I see our boys being killed by these people and I want an end to it. You seem to want us to go in gung-ho and sort out a situation that can only be resolved by time. I see people like you wanting to poke their nose in a conflict that history tells us to stay well clear of. In a modern progressive world, I am all for us (presumably you mean the UK) to be striving for understanding, tolerance and respect. As long as it stops there. Tony Blair and do-gooders like I assume you are, have done a huge amount of damage to world peace by interfering in the Middle East, in recent years. Wouldn't it be better if we campaigned to get our boys home and to make it law to stay out of foreign countries, unless they threaten us? Jess Jephcott
  • Score: 0

6:33pm Fri 19 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Jess's admitted ignorance and knuckle-scraping attitude is highly amusing and entertaining. Our "boys" are being killed as a result of politicians making decisions which affect and offend others.
As a humanist, I would rather see all religious differences ended and I find the sight of leading clerics urging on their followers to commit atrocities of one sort or another equally distasteful.
Strangely enough, by the end of his own piece above, it seems Jess is dimly beginning to perceive what is in Britain's best interest.
What he now needs to understand is just how bad Israel is in its treatment of Palestinians and how that provides a focus for anger for huge numbers of people around the world.
Jess's admitted ignorance and knuckle-scraping attitude is highly amusing and entertaining. Our "boys" are being killed as a result of politicians making decisions which affect and offend others. As a humanist, I would rather see all religious differences ended and I find the sight of leading clerics urging on their followers to commit atrocities of one sort or another equally distasteful. Strangely enough, by the end of his own piece above, it seems Jess is dimly beginning to perceive what is in Britain's best interest. What he now needs to understand is just how bad Israel is in its treatment of Palestinians and how that provides a focus for anger for huge numbers of people around the world. John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

7:14pm Fri 19 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

Jess if 'we' had not involved ourselves in their country in the first place then 'they' might not feel the way about us that they do. Just like we didn't want to be occupied by Adolf 'they' didn't want to be occupied by 'us'.
But 'we' had the idea 'we' were God's gift to the world and went into their country didn't we? We still are interfering believing 'we' know best for them. If we kept out of their affairs, let them sort it themselves whatever the outcome, then our soldiers wouldn't have to lose their lives. I don't see many politicians going and getting killed do you? If they did perhaps we might not be in the trouble we are in the UK!
Jess if 'we' had not involved ourselves in their country in the first place then 'they' might not feel the way about us that they do. Just like we didn't want to be occupied by Adolf 'they' didn't want to be occupied by 'us'. But 'we' had the idea 'we' were God's gift to the world and went into their country didn't we? We still are interfering believing 'we' know best for them. If we kept out of their affairs, let them sort it themselves whatever the outcome, then our soldiers wouldn't have to lose their lives. I don't see many politicians going and getting killed do you? If they did perhaps we might not be in the trouble we are in the UK! jacklumber1
  • Score: 0

8:17pm Fri 19 Jul 13

Bobby Walker says...

Clearly it is not the same as the Nazi organised mass murder of every single person they deemed to be of a particular race. Such comparisons would be incredibly offensive to Israelis, for obvious reasons.
The situation in Israel/Palestine is an ongoing human tragedy, that needs diplomacy for any chance of reconciliation. Backing one side into the corner with inflammatory language does not help peaceful resolution.
Clearly it is not the same as the Nazi organised mass murder of every single person they deemed to be of a particular race. Such comparisons would be incredibly offensive to Israelis, for obvious reasons. The situation in Israel/Palestine is an ongoing human tragedy, that needs diplomacy for any chance of reconciliation. Backing one side into the corner with inflammatory language does not help peaceful resolution. Bobby Walker
  • Score: 0

9:02pm Fri 19 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Bobby: which side is being backed into which corner by which party?
Are you aware that Israeli politicians are in the process of ethnically cleansing between 40,000 and 60,000 Bedouin Palestinians from their traditional homelands in the Naqab (Negev) Desert area right now?
The Prawer Plan is being used to empty the area so that the Israel regime can implement a plan to populate the area with immigrants under a programme called Go South, which offers large discounts to immigrants who settle there.
Is that not inflammatory behaviour?
The intention to do this dates all the way back to when Ben Gurion became the self-declared Prime Minister of the illegally created state of Israel in 1948.
The Zionists in Israel have never stopped stealing land from the Palestinians. It is happening right now, each and every single day.
The Palestinians have spent the last 65 years just trying to hold on to their own land while the rest of the world has looked away from Israeli aggression and war crimes.
How much of that - to come back to the original theme - is being taught in our schools?
Bobby: which side is being backed into which corner by which party? Are you aware that Israeli politicians are in the process of ethnically cleansing between 40,000 and 60,000 Bedouin Palestinians from their traditional homelands in the Naqab (Negev) Desert area right now? The Prawer Plan is being used to empty the area so that the Israel regime can implement a plan to populate the area with immigrants under a programme called Go South, which offers large discounts to immigrants who settle there. Is that not inflammatory behaviour? The intention to do this dates all the way back to when Ben Gurion became the self-declared Prime Minister of the illegally created state of Israel in 1948. The Zionists in Israel have never stopped stealing land from the Palestinians. It is happening right now, each and every single day. The Palestinians have spent the last 65 years just trying to hold on to their own land while the rest of the world has looked away from Israeli aggression and war crimes. How much of that - to come back to the original theme - is being taught in our schools? John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

10:04pm Fri 19 Jul 13

Bobby Walker says...

John, both sides feel they are in a corner. Israel is a country surrounded by nations hostile to its existence. Its people are murdered in the street.
If extremists didn't murder Israelis in the name of Palestine, western democratic governments would find it very difficult to turn the other way to Israeli policy.
It is a terrible situation, a complete mistake historically, that needs calm on both sides.
John, both sides feel they are in a corner. Israel is a country surrounded by nations hostile to its existence. Its people are murdered in the street. If extremists didn't murder Israelis in the name of Palestine, western democratic governments would find it very difficult to turn the other way to Israeli policy. It is a terrible situation, a complete mistake historically, that needs calm on both sides. Bobby Walker
  • Score: 0

10:34pm Fri 19 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Bobby: it is incorrect to assume that both sides are equal in nature.
Israel has a heavily armed army, possessing tanks and artillery field guns - the Palestinians do not; the Israelis have an armed navy - the Palestinians do not; the Israelis have a heavily armed air force, with fighter-bombers, drones and helicopters - the Palestinians do not.
Israel has America exercising the veto at the UN on its behalf - the Palestinians do not.
The Israelis have full backing from the EU - the Palestinians do not.
Every infraction by Israel of UN resolutions and International Criminal Court decisions has been ignored and treated with total impunity by Israel.
The Israelis control virtually every aspect of life in the Palestinian areas - it is not the other way round.
Are they equal parties? NO !!!
Bobby: it is incorrect to assume that both sides are equal in nature. Israel has a heavily armed army, possessing tanks and artillery field guns - the Palestinians do not; the Israelis have an armed navy - the Palestinians do not; the Israelis have a heavily armed air force, with fighter-bombers, drones and helicopters - the Palestinians do not. Israel has America exercising the veto at the UN on its behalf - the Palestinians do not. The Israelis have full backing from the EU - the Palestinians do not. Every infraction by Israel of UN resolutions and International Criminal Court decisions has been ignored and treated with total impunity by Israel. The Israelis control virtually every aspect of life in the Palestinian areas - it is not the other way round. Are they equal parties? NO !!! John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

12:05am Sat 20 Jul 13

Bobby Walker says...

Atrocities have been committed by both sides, neither of which can ever be justified.
Atrocities have been committed by both sides, neither of which can ever be justified. Bobby Walker
  • Score: 0

12:26am Sat 20 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

I agree with you but any objective analysis will reveal that the scale of Israeli atrocities was - and continues to be - far worse than anything the puny Palestinians have ever carried out.
Two wrongs do not make a right, it is true, but a greater wrong - as carried out by the Zionists against the Palestinians - is something that should receive far greater condemnation.
Don't forget that British soldiers and police officers were murdered by Zionist extremists in the run up to the 1948 Nakba.
I agree with you but any objective analysis will reveal that the scale of Israeli atrocities was - and continues to be - far worse than anything the puny Palestinians have ever carried out. Two wrongs do not make a right, it is true, but a greater wrong - as carried out by the Zionists against the Palestinians - is something that should receive far greater condemnation. Don't forget that British soldiers and police officers were murdered by Zionist extremists in the run up to the 1948 Nakba. John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

4:53am Sat 20 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Bobby Walker said: "If extremists didn't murder Israelis in the name of Palestine, western democratic governments would find it very difficult to turn the other way to Israeli policy."

Are you saying that the reason why
western democratic governments turn the other way to Israeli policy is because they can live with it, as long as the murders are carried out in the name of Israel and the dead are Palestinians?
Bobby Walker said: "If extremists didn't murder Israelis in the name of Palestine, western democratic governments would find it very difficult to turn the other way to Israeli policy." Are you saying that the reason why western democratic governments turn the other way to Israeli policy is because they can live with it, as long as the murders are carried out in the name of Israel and the dead are Palestinians? Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

7:18am Sat 20 Jul 13

Bobby Walker says...

It would be very difficult for a western democratic government not to sanction Israel if it were clear Israel was the only aggressor.
I believe that virtually everybody in Colchester for example rightly believes that all people have an equal right to life and to live in peace.
It would be very difficult for a western democratic government not to sanction Israel if it were clear Israel was the only aggressor. I believe that virtually everybody in Colchester for example rightly believes that all people have an equal right to life and to live in peace. Bobby Walker
  • Score: 0

7:34am Sat 20 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Bobby: you come across as a really nice - if poorly informed - guy.
I am not sure you have a full understanding as to what happens in the world beyond Colchester.
Israel acts with impunity.
It ignores countless UN resolutions and international court judgments.
Daily, Israel guns down Palestinians in their own streets, using tear gas, rubber coated bullets (and, on occasions real live ammunition), stun grenades, sound grenades and skunk water.
I know this to be true because I have witnessed them doing this with my own eyes over the last two years.
The truth is that our government and many others around the world have developed a habit of looking away whenever Israeli atrocities take place.
Look at Operation Cast Lead waged against the people of Gaza for just 3 weeks in 2008-2009.
The Israelis murdered around 1,400 people - most of them innocent civilians - including 400 children.
Physical injuries ran into the thousands and the number of children and elderly people now suffering from PTSD runs into the tens of thousands.
And what has Britain and the international community done about this obvious war crime?
Nothing, my Colchester friend.
Absolutely nothing.
Bobby: you come across as a really nice - if poorly informed - guy. I am not sure you have a full understanding as to what happens in the world beyond Colchester. Israel acts with impunity. It ignores countless UN resolutions and international court judgments. Daily, Israel guns down Palestinians in their own streets, using tear gas, rubber coated bullets (and, on occasions real live ammunition), stun grenades, sound grenades and skunk water. I know this to be true because I have witnessed them doing this with my own eyes over the last two years. The truth is that our government and many others around the world have developed a habit of looking away whenever Israeli atrocities take place. Look at Operation Cast Lead waged against the people of Gaza for just 3 weeks in 2008-2009. The Israelis murdered around 1,400 people - most of them innocent civilians - including 400 children. Physical injuries ran into the thousands and the number of children and elderly people now suffering from PTSD runs into the tens of thousands. And what has Britain and the international community done about this obvious war crime? Nothing, my Colchester friend. Absolutely nothing. John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

7:56am Sat 20 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

John D you could say that Britain and the west have done something. In that they look away. They made no objections at the UN. By looking away they acquiesced in the actions you describe.
The question is why has the west looked away? Firstly the Israeli group exercises a great amount of influence in the USA. Britain, the west, acquiesces to what the USA says. Because the USA is the dominant power.
Secondly the west has a fear of the middle east and the Islamic world. Which is understandable because of the way they fail to settle their differences.
How long ago was it when the west saw the answer to their problems came out of the barrel of a gun?
In the US they still do - the NRA still dominates most of US thinking.
So it seems examples are not being set. Then UK politicians are as hypocritical as any. They fail to set examples don't they?
John D you could say that Britain and the west have done something. In that they look away. They made no objections at the UN. By looking away they acquiesced in the actions you describe. The question is why has the west looked away? Firstly the Israeli group exercises a great amount of influence in the USA. Britain, the west, acquiesces to what the USA says. Because the USA is the dominant power. Secondly the west has a fear of the middle east and the Islamic world. Which is understandable because of the way they fail to settle their differences. How long ago was it when the west saw the answer to their problems came out of the barrel of a gun? In the US they still do - the NRA still dominates most of US thinking. So it seems examples are not being set. Then UK politicians are as hypocritical as any. They fail to set examples don't they? jacklumber1
  • Score: 0

9:23am Sat 20 Jul 13

treadstone says...

Mr Dowdie's first post about educating students is a keen one. Especially when General GOVE wants to put the subject of history study back to before the reformation.
Bob Russell's tack on this is an educated one.
He had many years of knowledge on the subject when he was work at Essex Uni.
The Palestine Peoples representative groups there was quite prevalent.
The Israelis of who I have many friends and comrades there some who worked along side Mos sad don't all agree on the issue of division.
However the USA and the majority of the Blue Blood Jewish, have a different approach on what they think is right and what they want.
You posters on here will not solve any issues by arguing and slanting each other. Bob's comments
where patriotic and fair under the circumstances and widely versed.
Treadstone
Mr Dowdie's first post about educating students is a keen one. Especially when General GOVE wants to put the subject of history study back to before the reformation. Bob Russell's tack on this is an educated one. He had many years of knowledge on the subject when he was work at Essex Uni. The Palestine Peoples representative groups there was quite prevalent. The Israelis of who I have many friends and comrades there some who worked along side Mos sad don't all agree on the issue of division. However the USA and the majority of the Blue Blood Jewish, have a different approach on what they think is right and what they want. You posters on here will not solve any issues by arguing and slanting each other. Bob's comments where patriotic and fair under the circumstances and widely versed. Treadstone treadstone
  • Score: 0

9:30am Sat 20 Jul 13

treadstone says...

Oh and if I can take the opportunity to add.
What about the Education/Health and Financial Cleansing going on here in this country.
Should we all not be looking in our own back yard first, before we start throwing mud in others.
This recession has brought out some of the most vitriolic and bitter disgraceful attitudes amongst many of the citizens living here.
Division, segregation and disparity is now common place similar to Palestine.
The whole nation state here,is not dissimilar to the plight of the western bank and Gaza strip it is just painted, packaged and glossed over in an alternate way.
Treadstone.
Oh and if I can take the opportunity to add. What about the Education/Health and Financial Cleansing going on here in this country. Should we all not be looking in our own back yard first, before we start throwing mud in others. This recession has brought out some of the most vitriolic and bitter disgraceful attitudes amongst many of the citizens living here. Division, segregation and disparity is now common place similar to Palestine. The whole nation state here,is not dissimilar to the plight of the western bank and Gaza strip it is just painted, packaged and glossed over in an alternate way. Treadstone. treadstone
  • Score: 0

12:06pm Sat 20 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Sorry, Treadstone; I was agreeing with most of what you had to say until you got to the part where you likened what is happening in Palestine today with what is happening in this country.
While it might appear superficially that the climate of economic austerity which has been pursued in this country bears a slight resemblance to the economic policies being applied by Israel against the Palestinians, there really is very little connection between the two situations.
There is no armed military force occupying our country. The police are not armed generally and do not imprison people for months or even years on end without going through some sort of due process of law.
We don't have illegal settlers armed to the back teeth attacking us, our land, our crops, our animals and our homes on a regular basis.
We don't have to queue for hours to go through checkpoints to get to work or to attend medical appointments.
All these indignities and frustrations are the daily lot of the Palestinians.
Palestine is now a 1984-style police state in both the West Bank and Gaza for ordinary Palestinians.
I know we too have drone technology being used to spy on us but at least it is not being used to kill us - yet !!
One final small point: Palestinians throughout Gaza and the West Bank are being systematically starved of water supplies. Most of them exist on around half the UN minimum recommended amount, while Israelis get by on around 400 per cent of the minimum recommended amount.
Can you imagine what the public reaction would be if such a policy were to be applied here?
Sorry, Treadstone; I was agreeing with most of what you had to say until you got to the part where you likened what is happening in Palestine today with what is happening in this country. While it might appear superficially that the climate of economic austerity which has been pursued in this country bears a slight resemblance to the economic policies being applied by Israel against the Palestinians, there really is very little connection between the two situations. There is no armed military force occupying our country. The police are not armed generally and do not imprison people for months or even years on end without going through some sort of due process of law. We don't have illegal settlers armed to the back teeth attacking us, our land, our crops, our animals and our homes on a regular basis. We don't have to queue for hours to go through checkpoints to get to work or to attend medical appointments. All these indignities and frustrations are the daily lot of the Palestinians. Palestine is now a 1984-style police state in both the West Bank and Gaza for ordinary Palestinians. I know we too have drone technology being used to spy on us but at least it is not being used to kill us - yet !! One final small point: Palestinians throughout Gaza and the West Bank are being systematically starved of water supplies. Most of them exist on around half the UN minimum recommended amount, while Israelis get by on around 400 per cent of the minimum recommended amount. Can you imagine what the public reaction would be if such a policy were to be applied here? John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

1:49pm Sat 20 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Isn't it sad, the level of ignorance among our population as to what is going on elsewhere in the world? Probably a large part of the blame can be laid at the doors of the BBC, which tends not to broadcast anything that Big Brother doesn't want us little people to know. This applies to foreign politics much, much more than to domestic issues, which it is harder to keep hidden from our eyes. If you want to learn about the missing pieces of the jigsaw, watch some non-western TV channels. You will be amazed. Last night I saw an RT news report from the West Bank, showing how the Israeli army treats Palestinians. I don't think I have ever seen that on BBC or Sky. But let's get back to basics, as Sir Bob requested of Michael Gove: Let our school children be taught not just about the history of by-gone wrongs, such as the Holocaust, but of the wrongs happening in our own time, allegedly in our name, and before our very eyes, if we choose to open them, that is.
Isn't it sad, the level of ignorance among our population as to what is going on elsewhere in the world? Probably a large part of the blame can be laid at the doors of the BBC, which tends not to broadcast anything that Big Brother doesn't want us little people to know. This applies to foreign politics much, much more than to domestic issues, which it is harder to keep hidden from our eyes. If you want to learn about the missing pieces of the jigsaw, watch some non-western TV channels. You will be amazed. Last night I saw an RT news report from the West Bank, showing how the Israeli army treats Palestinians. I don't think I have ever seen that on BBC or Sky. But let's get back to basics, as Sir Bob requested of Michael Gove: Let our school children be taught not just about the history of by-gone wrongs, such as the Holocaust, but of the wrongs happening in our own time, allegedly in our name, and before our very eyes, if we choose to open them, that is. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Sat 20 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

Unfortunately the British people in general have little interest in what goes on outside the UK. Their knowledge of other countries is limited to two weeks on the costa, the bars and sport on TV.
There are some stalwarts who do, as we can read on here. But the majority no way. Even our MPs are insulated from wanting contact with Europe. Just read the tabloid comments and see Brit attitudes to foreigners and migrants.
We seem to be an island race with island minds.A lack of interest let alone knowledge of the world beyond Dover!
Unfortunately the British people in general have little interest in what goes on outside the UK. Their knowledge of other countries is limited to two weeks on the costa, the bars and sport on TV. There are some stalwarts who do, as we can read on here. But the majority no way. Even our MPs are insulated from wanting contact with Europe. Just read the tabloid comments and see Brit attitudes to foreigners and migrants. We seem to be an island race with island minds.A lack of interest let alone knowledge of the world beyond Dover! jacklumber1
  • Score: 0

4:05pm Sat 20 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

Reply to jacklumber1:

Well, I wouldn't mind if they then kept their mouths shut and did not spout inanities about things that by their own admission they know next to nothing about.
Reply to jacklumber1: Well, I wouldn't mind if they then kept their mouths shut and did not spout inanities about things that by their own admission they know next to nothing about. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

8:44pm Sat 20 Jul 13

jacklumber1 says...

Elizabeth - unfortunately the do!
Elizabeth - unfortunately the do! jacklumber1
  • Score: 0

1:00pm Sun 21 Jul 13

treadstone says...

John Dowdle wrote:
Sorry, Treadstone; I was agreeing with most of what you had to say until you got to the part where you likened what is happening in Palestine today with what is happening in this country.
While it might appear superficially that the climate of economic austerity which has been pursued in this country bears a slight resemblance to the economic policies being applied by Israel against the Palestinians, there really is very little connection between the two situations.
There is no armed military force occupying our country. The police are not armed generally and do not imprison people for months or even years on end without going through some sort of due process of law.
We don't have illegal settlers armed to the back teeth attacking us, our land, our crops, our animals and our homes on a regular basis.
We don't have to queue for hours to go through checkpoints to get to work or to attend medical appointments.
All these indignities and frustrations are the daily lot of the Palestinians.
Palestine is now a 1984-style police state in both the West Bank and Gaza for ordinary Palestinians.
I know we too have drone technology being used to spy on us but at least it is not being used to kill us - yet !!
One final small point: Palestinians throughout Gaza and the West Bank are being systematically starved of water supplies. Most of them exist on around half the UN minimum recommended amount, while Israelis get by on around 400 per cent of the minimum recommended amount.
Can you imagine what the public reaction would be if such a policy were to be applied here?
Yes of course I understand your stance on this debate and the politics that may ensue.
My remarks were a brief generalisation I did not want it to become a political soap box mantra.
Plus the fact I only have one hand to write with at the moment.
There are many of comments that can be taken in a "Lateral thinking" manner. I did not want to espouse or give opinion in a "Literal" methodology.
The argument in Palestine that has gone on for decades if not centuries, will never be negotiated fairly until a parity of thought and equality takes a more common ground or stance.
Unfortunately the association with the UK is not a Literal comparison, but a stark prophetic warning of "what" could come, if we all do not steer away from this Beer & Chips "Feral" & selfish mentality:
If I could add we did have check points when citizens were going to work in one of our regions where I served in Northern Ireland and if we are not careful we will be reopening them back there and here in the UK as well.
(There has been a discussed philosophy over the years of manning army battalions for extra security at Dover and International Airports across the breath of ports within the UK).
kind regards
Treadstone: :-)
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: Sorry, Treadstone; I was agreeing with most of what you had to say until you got to the part where you likened what is happening in Palestine today with what is happening in this country. While it might appear superficially that the climate of economic austerity which has been pursued in this country bears a slight resemblance to the economic policies being applied by Israel against the Palestinians, there really is very little connection between the two situations. There is no armed military force occupying our country. The police are not armed generally and do not imprison people for months or even years on end without going through some sort of due process of law. We don't have illegal settlers armed to the back teeth attacking us, our land, our crops, our animals and our homes on a regular basis. We don't have to queue for hours to go through checkpoints to get to work or to attend medical appointments. All these indignities and frustrations are the daily lot of the Palestinians. Palestine is now a 1984-style police state in both the West Bank and Gaza for ordinary Palestinians. I know we too have drone technology being used to spy on us but at least it is not being used to kill us - yet !! One final small point: Palestinians throughout Gaza and the West Bank are being systematically starved of water supplies. Most of them exist on around half the UN minimum recommended amount, while Israelis get by on around 400 per cent of the minimum recommended amount. Can you imagine what the public reaction would be if such a policy were to be applied here?[/p][/quote]Yes of course I understand your stance on this debate and the politics that may ensue. My remarks were a brief generalisation I did not want it to become a political soap box mantra. Plus the fact I only have one hand to write with at the moment. There are many of comments that can be taken in a "Lateral thinking" manner. I did not want to espouse or give opinion in a "Literal" methodology. The argument in Palestine that has gone on for decades if not centuries, will never be negotiated fairly until a parity of thought and equality takes a more common ground or stance. Unfortunately the association with the UK is not a Literal comparison, but a stark prophetic warning of "what" could come, if we all do not steer away from this Beer & Chips "Feral" & selfish mentality: If I could add we did have check points when citizens were going to work in one of our regions where I served in Northern Ireland and if we are not careful we will be reopening them back there and here in the UK as well. (There has been a discussed philosophy over the years of manning army battalions for extra security at Dover and International Airports across the breath of ports within the UK). kind regards Treadstone: :-) treadstone
  • Score: 0

3:31pm Sun 21 Jul 13

Jess Jephcott says...

Not surprisingly, the anti--semitic bigots on this site redefine another English word, with ignorance being used as meaning the failure to agree with a point of view. Whilst there is a lot of common sense spoken here, the situation is that Israel's land was taken by force and, with all the wealth that the arab states possess, nobody has come to the aid of the dispossessed Palestinians. This is not our fight. Let them sort it out amongst themselves. The British meddled in matters that were none of their business, just as they did in Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan with the toadying warmongering of the likes of Tony Blair. Meanwhile the hypocrisy of these bigots ignores the greater evils in the arab world, eg the ongoing treatment of Ethiopians in Yemen, the treatment of women generally in moslem countries, etc. We have troubles enough at home. Let us learn the mistakes of history and stay out of other countries' business.
Not surprisingly, the anti--semitic bigots on this site redefine another English word, with ignorance being used as meaning the failure to agree with a point of view. Whilst there is a lot of common sense spoken here, the situation is that Israel's land was taken by force and, with all the wealth that the arab states possess, nobody has come to the aid of the dispossessed Palestinians. This is not our fight. Let them sort it out amongst themselves. The British meddled in matters that were none of their business, just as they did in Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan with the toadying warmongering of the likes of Tony Blair. Meanwhile the hypocrisy of these bigots ignores the greater evils in the arab world, eg the ongoing treatment of Ethiopians in Yemen, the treatment of women generally in moslem countries, etc. We have troubles enough at home. Let us learn the mistakes of history and stay out of other countries' business. Jess Jephcott
  • Score: -1

8:17pm Sun 21 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

Jess: there are no anti-Semitic bigots on this site because there is no such thing as anti-Semitism.
The term never even existed until 1860, when it was invented by a German journalist.
The term Semitic relates to a group of around 20 languages, including Hebrew, Arabic and a number of other African languages.
To accuse anyone of being anti- a group of languages is quite clearly nonsensical, i.e. it makes no sense.
Zionists love the term because they can make it mean anything they want it to mean. They use the term to choke off any criticism of their unacceptable behaviours and practices.
While your reluctance to get involved in disputes in areas of the world where we currently have little or no power to resolve them is understandable, we (the UK) do still bear responsibility for having caused many of them in the first place.
The situation in Palestine remains one of those disputes in an area where Britain exercised considerable power in setting up the present wholly unsatisfactory situation.
We cannot ignore what has happened and how we contributed historically to it.
While we can adopt a stance of isolationism, you will find that many people around the world still hold us responsible for what has happened in places like Palestine.
The injustice that Palestine represents is not something we can ignore.
Until such time as the situation there is resolved, we will find ourselves being criticised and even attacked for our historic responsibility and our failure to be part of the solution.
I agree there are other parts of the world where the situation can be viewed as being even worse but Palestine is one of the absolute key areas which must be resolved before the world can move on to resolve many of the other problem areas.
We cannot just say "Nothing to do with us" if we want to live in a world where we wish to trade and travel with all other parts of the world.
I think Bob Russell understands this and is providing wise guidance to his constituents in Colchester.
Jess: there are no anti-Semitic bigots on this site because there is no such thing as anti-Semitism. The term never even existed until 1860, when it was invented by a German journalist. The term Semitic relates to a group of around 20 languages, including Hebrew, Arabic and a number of other African languages. To accuse anyone of being anti- a group of languages is quite clearly nonsensical, i.e. it makes no sense. Zionists love the term because they can make it mean anything they want it to mean. They use the term to choke off any criticism of their unacceptable behaviours and practices. While your reluctance to get involved in disputes in areas of the world where we currently have little or no power to resolve them is understandable, we (the UK) do still bear responsibility for having caused many of them in the first place. The situation in Palestine remains one of those disputes in an area where Britain exercised considerable power in setting up the present wholly unsatisfactory situation. We cannot ignore what has happened and how we contributed historically to it. While we can adopt a stance of isolationism, you will find that many people around the world still hold us responsible for what has happened in places like Palestine. The injustice that Palestine represents is not something we can ignore. Until such time as the situation there is resolved, we will find ourselves being criticised and even attacked for our historic responsibility and our failure to be part of the solution. I agree there are other parts of the world where the situation can be viewed as being even worse but Palestine is one of the absolute key areas which must be resolved before the world can move on to resolve many of the other problem areas. We cannot just say "Nothing to do with us" if we want to live in a world where we wish to trade and travel with all other parts of the world. I think Bob Russell understands this and is providing wise guidance to his constituents in Colchester. John Dowdle
  • Score: 1

9:19pm Mon 22 Jul 13

Mr-La-De-Da-Gunner-Graham says...

I've disgreed vehemently with Russell on so many issues over the years, will likely continue to do so, but it's fantastic that he's made these comments - well done Bob, I knew there was a glimmer of light inside you somewhere!!!!
I've disgreed vehemently with Russell on so many issues over the years, will likely continue to do so, but it's fantastic that he's made these comments - well done Bob, I knew there was a glimmer of light inside you somewhere!!!! Mr-La-De-Da-Gunner-Graham
  • Score: 1

8:46pm Tue 23 Jul 13

hursthill says...

For Bob Russell to compare Israel to Apartheid South Africa - is the equivalent of spitting in Mandela's face.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East where Christians, Jews Muslims can vote, like any Western democracy.

Jewish & Arab Israelis proudly play together in there national football team.
Aras & Jews serve as High Court judges, diplomats & MP's.

Bob Russell should concern himself with the crimes against humanity committed daily in Syria. 100,000 civilians killed by Assad, 1 million refugees.

Actually the racist is Bob Russell, who singles out the Jewish state for his trademark malice & hate. The voters of Colchester deserve better.
For Bob Russell to compare Israel to Apartheid South Africa - is the equivalent of spitting in Mandela's face. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East where Christians, Jews Muslims can vote, like any Western democracy. Jewish & Arab Israelis proudly play together in there national football team. Aras & Jews serve as High Court judges, diplomats & MP's. Bob Russell should concern himself with the crimes against humanity committed daily in Syria. 100,000 civilians killed by Assad, 1 million refugees. Actually the racist is Bob Russell, who singles out the Jewish state for his trademark malice & hate. The voters of Colchester deserve better. hursthill
  • Score: -1

9:12pm Tue 23 Jul 13

John Dowdle says...

If former South African President Mandela were able to express himself on this subject, it is certain he would express his agreement with Bob Russell.
Former Archbishop Desmond Tutu has said - and I agree with him - that the situation is Israel-Palestine is actually worse than it ever was in apartheid South Africa.
The Afrikaaners never tied to ethnically cleanse all non-whites from South Africa, whereas the Zionists in historic Palestine set out from day one to ethnically cleanse all Palestinians from the area, as evidenced by the Nakba and their ongoing behaviour ever since.
Palestinians - particularly in the West Bank - are under despotic military rule by Israel. When do they ever get to vote ion Israeli elections?
Even inside Israel, it is a fact that no Palestinian MKs have ever served in any of the governments formed since 1948. Why is that?
Tokenistic elections and appointments do not make Israel a democracy. The Zionist goal of a single-religion state make it clearly a non-democratic state.
I would also add that Palestinian residents in Jerusalem are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections either so the idea that Israel is a democracy is further undermined.
Illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank get to vote is Israeli general elections but their reluctant neighbours living in Palestinian towns and villages do not. How can that de described as a democracy?
Forget the simplistic hasbara propaganda you have been mind-washed in.
Accusing Russell for being a racist for criticising is also a mark of an ignoramus. A state is not an ethnic grouping so how can criticism of a state be considered racist? Absurd !
If former South African President Mandela were able to express himself on this subject, it is certain he would express his agreement with Bob Russell. Former Archbishop Desmond Tutu has said - and I agree with him - that the situation is Israel-Palestine is actually worse than it ever was in apartheid South Africa. The Afrikaaners never tied to ethnically cleanse all non-whites from South Africa, whereas the Zionists in historic Palestine set out from day one to ethnically cleanse all Palestinians from the area, as evidenced by the Nakba and their ongoing behaviour ever since. Palestinians - particularly in the West Bank - are under despotic military rule by Israel. When do they ever get to vote ion Israeli elections? Even inside Israel, it is a fact that no Palestinian MKs have ever served in any of the governments formed since 1948. Why is that? Tokenistic elections and appointments do not make Israel a democracy. The Zionist goal of a single-religion state make it clearly a non-democratic state. I would also add that Palestinian residents in Jerusalem are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections either so the idea that Israel is a democracy is further undermined. Illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank get to vote is Israeli general elections but their reluctant neighbours living in Palestinian towns and villages do not. How can that de described as a democracy? Forget the simplistic hasbara propaganda you have been mind-washed in. Accusing Russell for being a racist for criticising is also a mark of an ignoramus. A state is not an ethnic grouping so how can criticism of a state be considered racist? Absurd ! John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

5:04am Wed 24 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

I have had no broadband for a few days so I have only just seen Jess Jephcott's comment of Sunday. What's this about "Israel's land was taken by force"? When, pray? By whom? Israel was created on land taken by force from the Palestinians ever since Balfour. It is still being extended by force before our very eyes. Please get your facts right.

And Jess, when people point out that it's ignorant to compare the West Bank checkpoints with checkpoints in Northern Ireland, the issue is not one of "failure to agree with a point of view". The comparison simply betrays unpardonable ignorance inviting criticism. Nor is that criticism bigoted or anti-semitic, if by the latter you mean anti-Jewish. There are many Jews (and I am one) who are ashamed of what Israel is doing "in our name".
I have had no broadband for a few days so I have only just seen Jess Jephcott's comment of Sunday. What's this about "Israel's land was taken by force"? When, pray? By whom? Israel was created on land taken by force from the Palestinians ever since Balfour. It is still being extended by force before our very eyes. Please get your facts right. And Jess, when people point out that it's ignorant to compare the West Bank checkpoints with checkpoints in Northern Ireland, the issue is not one of "failure to agree with a point of view". The comparison simply betrays unpardonable ignorance inviting criticism. Nor is that criticism bigoted or anti-semitic, if by the latter you mean anti-Jewish. There are many Jews (and I am one) who are ashamed of what Israel is doing "in our name". Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

6:53am Sat 27 Jul 13

Elizabeth Morley says...

In answer to those who say the Palestinians should accept the occupation, this is how in 1946 Mr Reginald Manningham-Buller, MP for Daventry at the time, explained why they couldn't: "The Arabs want to go on living in that thickly populated land which their own forefathers have occupied and cultivated for hundreds of years, and theirs is the feeling which every Welshman, Scotsman, Englishman and American would have if he was told that hundreds of thousands of another nationality were going to settle in what he regarded as his own country and convert it into an alien State." That feeling will never die, and the sooner Israel learns to reconcile with it, the sooner peace and harmony will reign in the Holy Land again.
In answer to those who say the Palestinians should accept the occupation, this is how in 1946 Mr Reginald Manningham-Buller, MP for Daventry at the time, explained why they couldn't: "The Arabs want to go on living in that thickly populated land which their own forefathers have occupied and cultivated for hundreds of years, and theirs is the feeling which every Welshman, Scotsman, Englishman and American would have if he was told that hundreds of thousands of another nationality were going to settle in what he regarded as his own country and convert it into an alien State." That feeling will never die, and the sooner Israel learns to reconcile with it, the sooner peace and harmony will reign in the Holy Land again. Elizabeth Morley
  • Score: 0

7:43pm Wed 31 Jul 13

Fair deal says...

hursthill wrote:
For Bob Russell to compare Israel to Apartheid South Africa - is the equivalent of spitting in Mandela's face.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East where Christians, Jews Muslims can vote, like any Western democracy.

Jewish & Arab Israelis proudly play together in there national football team.
Aras & Jews serve as High Court judges, diplomats & MP's.

Bob Russell should concern himself with the crimes against humanity committed daily in Syria. 100,000 civilians killed by Assad, 1 million refugees.

Actually the racist is Bob Russell, who singles out the Jewish state for his trademark malice & hate. The voters of Colchester deserve better.
(1) no nation can call itself democratic if it has universal suffrage without universal human rights.
(2) Jews and Arabs do indeed play together on the Israeli football team and in many major clubs. But guess who gets the racist taunts... One retired experienced Arab Israeli team member, Rifaat "Jmmy" Turk, said last year that he thought that racism in football was getting worse and Mossawa appealed to FIFA. The subsequent trouble at Beitar only goes to emphasise the problem.
(3) Sir Bob was not equating horrors, but equating the amount of time that should now be spent thinking about them. That's because most people know about the holocaust, but very few know about the racism to which Palestinians are subjected. Education is needed and Sir Bob is right to make the big ask for what is surely the first essential step towards any peace agreement.
[quote][p][bold]hursthill[/bold] wrote: For Bob Russell to compare Israel to Apartheid South Africa - is the equivalent of spitting in Mandela's face. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East where Christians, Jews Muslims can vote, like any Western democracy. Jewish & Arab Israelis proudly play together in there national football team. Aras & Jews serve as High Court judges, diplomats & MP's. Bob Russell should concern himself with the crimes against humanity committed daily in Syria. 100,000 civilians killed by Assad, 1 million refugees. Actually the racist is Bob Russell, who singles out the Jewish state for his trademark malice & hate. The voters of Colchester deserve better.[/p][/quote](1) no nation can call itself democratic if it has universal suffrage without universal human rights. (2) Jews and Arabs do indeed play together on the Israeli football team and in many major clubs. But guess who gets the racist taunts... One retired experienced Arab Israeli team member, Rifaat "Jmmy" Turk, said last year that he thought that racism in football was getting worse and Mossawa appealed to FIFA. The subsequent trouble at Beitar only goes to emphasise the problem. (3) Sir Bob was not equating horrors, but equating the amount of time that should now be spent thinking about them. That's because most people know about the holocaust, but very few know about the racism to which Palestinians are subjected. Education is needed and Sir Bob is right to make the big ask for what is surely the first essential step towards any peace agreement. Fair deal
  • Score: 1

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