Debate begins on whether race should be a factor for police promotions

First published in News

ETHNIC minority police officers in Essex could be promoted because of their race.
 

Nick Alston, police and crime commissioner for Essex, admitted race may be used as a factor in the future but wants a debate on the subject first.
 

The question arose after Sir Peter Fahy, who leads workforce development for the Association of Chief Police Officers, claimed there could be an “operational need” to promote based on race and suggested the law would need to be changed to allow it.
 

Mr Alston stopped short of stating race should be a factor but welcomed a discussion on the subject.

See the full story in Thursday's Gazette.
 

 

Comments (11)

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10:45am Wed 20 Feb 13

TheCaptain says...

and i thought ability was the most important thing
and i thought ability was the most important thing TheCaptain
  • Score: 0

10:56am Wed 20 Feb 13

angryman!!! says...

what a stupid idea and what a stupid debate, how could any body back that up as an argument, now if someone from an ethnic back ground does get the job people will believe they've only got it because of the skin colour.
positive discrimination is probably the worst thing for racial equality and plays straight into the hands of idiots like bnp etc
well done nick you.....
what a stupid idea and what a stupid debate, how could any body back that up as an argument, now if someone from an ethnic back ground does get the job people will believe they've only got it because of the skin colour. positive discrimination is probably the worst thing for racial equality and plays straight into the hands of idiots like bnp etc well done nick you..... angryman!!!
  • Score: 0

11:58am Wed 20 Feb 13

Say It As It Is OK? says...

We have already seen the promotion of women over men in many walks of life, in an attempt to redress the balance. (whatever that means?). The selection of women MPs only, in some constituencies, is a prime example, where men (of any race) were not even allowed to be considered.

Like like most people I'm in favour of promoting the right person to the job, irrespective of colour, race or sex and every applicant should always only to be considered on their ability to do the job. To remove certain sections of the population will not only be discriminatory but it will strengthen the arm of the "politically correct" and feed straight into the hands of groups like the BNP.
We have already seen the promotion of women over men in many walks of life, in an attempt to redress the balance. (whatever that means?). The selection of women MPs only, in some constituencies, is a prime example, where men (of any race) were not even allowed to be considered. Like like most people I'm in favour of promoting the right person to the job, irrespective of colour, race or sex and every applicant should always only to be considered on their ability to do the job. To remove certain sections of the population will not only be discriminatory but it will strengthen the arm of the "politically correct" and feed straight into the hands of groups like the BNP. Say It As It Is OK?
  • Score: 0

12:46pm Wed 20 Feb 13

Colonel Kurtz says...

Anyone dares to speak out is called a racist.

Can you imagine this happening anywhere in the world except here in the UK
Anyone dares to speak out is called a racist. Can you imagine this happening anywhere in the world except here in the UK Colonel Kurtz
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Wed 20 Feb 13

hughie-s says...

Many of this countries problems can be put down to people getting posts for which they are not suited, lack of experience, judgement etc. you name it, are all ignored if they tick the right boxes on an equality list.

Best person gets the job - end of.
Many of this countries problems can be put down to people getting posts for which they are not suited, lack of experience, judgement etc. you name it, are all ignored if they tick the right boxes on an equality list. Best person gets the job - end of. hughie-s
  • Score: 0

1:08pm Wed 20 Feb 13

wellnow says...

Sad you couldn't make it up.what ever merit could ever be gained.whoever muted the idea should have their employment reassessed let alone future promotion.
Sad you couldn't make it up.what ever merit could ever be gained.whoever muted the idea should have their employment reassessed let alone future promotion. wellnow
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Wed 20 Feb 13

Jess Jephcott says...

Promotion according to ability should be the only factor. The problem arises with the racist attititude of the people who make the decisions about who to promote. Didn't I read somewhere that the police are institutionally racist. How do you combat that?
Promotion according to ability should be the only factor. The problem arises with the racist attititude of the people who make the decisions about who to promote. Didn't I read somewhere that the police are institutionally racist. How do you combat that? Jess Jephcott
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Wed 20 Feb 13

super waluigi says...

Hang on one minute everyone.

Ability is without doubt a massive factor within promoting someone for any position. But I do believe that people of ethnic minority perhaps should be promoted above white people in certain cases only and should it be needed.

Please allow me to explain.....

I am a 33 year old white male.

Should I have to go to the doctors for a check up, and the area for concern was of an embarrassing part of my body, I would prefer a male doctor. Call me stupid, shy, or whatever, but it is how I feel. Even if a female doctor knew better, I would feel more comfortable with a male. Got it????

My point is, I am fine with a 99% white police force or whatever the stats are, but if some ethnic minorities feel happier having ethnic minorities policemen just like I do with a male gp, then there is a case. The policeman would still have to fit the bill of course.

I can see how it would help crime and keep some peace in the community. For sure.
Hang on one minute everyone. Ability is without doubt a massive factor within promoting someone for any position. But I do believe that people of ethnic minority perhaps should be promoted above white people in certain cases only and should it be needed. Please allow me to explain..... I am a 33 year old white male. Should I have to go to the doctors for a check up, and the area for concern was of an embarrassing part of my body, I would prefer a male doctor. Call me stupid, shy, or whatever, but it is how I feel. Even if a female doctor knew better, I would feel more comfortable with a male. Got it???? My point is, I am fine with a 99% white police force or whatever the stats are, but if some ethnic minorities feel happier having ethnic minorities policemen just like I do with a male gp, then there is a case. The policeman would still have to fit the bill of course. I can see how it would help crime and keep some peace in the community. For sure. super waluigi
  • Score: 0

9:38am Thu 21 Feb 13

jag99 says...

So we're combating discrimination by discriminating?

This is wrong - discrimination of any kind for any reason is wrong, certainly when your talking about promotions, job hiring, etc.

I don't think it's the same thing as choosing to be seen by a male doctor rather than a female doctor, etc.

People should be hired on their merits and ability to do the job, irrespective of gender, skin colour, religion, ethnicity, etc.
So we're combating discrimination by discriminating? This is wrong - discrimination of any kind for any reason is wrong, certainly when your talking about promotions, job hiring, etc. I don't think it's the same thing as choosing to be seen by a male doctor rather than a female doctor, etc. People should be hired on their merits and ability to do the job, irrespective of gender, skin colour, religion, ethnicity, etc. jag99
  • Score: 0

9:49am Thu 21 Feb 13

Say It As It Is OK? says...

super waluigi....I think the point you make is flawed. I agree men and women may wish to see a doctor, who is of the same sex, particularly if the subject matter is of a sensitive nature, personally it wouldn't bother me!

However, nobody has the right to demand to see a doctor who is of the same ethnic group, that would be considered racial discrimination.

So in suggesting the ethnic minority would be happier dealing with an ethnic minority police officer would equally be considered to be racial discrimination.
super waluigi....I think the point you make is flawed. I agree men and women may wish to see a doctor, who is of the same sex, particularly if the subject matter is of a sensitive nature, personally it wouldn't bother me! However, nobody has the right to demand to see a doctor who is of the same ethnic group, that would be considered racial discrimination. So in suggesting the ethnic minority would be happier dealing with an ethnic minority police officer would equally be considered to be racial discrimination. Say It As It Is OK?
  • Score: 0

1:08pm Thu 21 Feb 13

super waluigi says...

Say It As It Is OK? wrote:
super waluigi....I think the point you make is flawed. I agree men and women may wish to see a doctor, who is of the same sex, particularly if the subject matter is of a sensitive nature, personally it wouldn't bother me!

However, nobody has the right to demand to see a doctor who is of the same ethnic group, that would be considered racial discrimination.

So in suggesting the ethnic minority would be happier dealing with an ethnic minority police officer would equally be considered to be racial discrimination.
Yes, seeing a doctor based on his/her skin colour would be racist. I agree that demanding a black police officer may also be a contentious issue.

I am not suggesting that. In fact quite the opposite.

I will use another example of why race might be used for employment.....

I have worked in big business's where it is mostly of white origin. Occasionally people would tell me jokes of a racist nature. I am not ok with this, and would simply ask to be left out of the jokes. Other people are ok with the jokes. That's fine too. No one was harmed. Sometimes a 'boys club' could be adopted, not by the employer, but within its walls when you know what you are comfortable with. Now we all know that the police have had a bad name in race relations for 100's of years. Jokes of black men and drug dealings, bmw's etc. terrible.
If the police can employ more ethnic minority policemen, I think it would benefit the force and society. Many people would welcome more ethnic policemen.

Simply put, if society moves on, then the police must move on also.

Ability is the most important issue of course. But most people who see this article and comment only see it from the perspective of the poor guy who did not get the job because of his skin colour.
[quote][p][bold]Say It As It Is OK?[/bold] wrote: super waluigi....I think the point you make is flawed. I agree men and women may wish to see a doctor, who is of the same sex, particularly if the subject matter is of a sensitive nature, personally it wouldn't bother me! However, nobody has the right to demand to see a doctor who is of the same ethnic group, that would be considered racial discrimination. So in suggesting the ethnic minority would be happier dealing with an ethnic minority police officer would equally be considered to be racial discrimination.[/p][/quote]Yes, seeing a doctor based on his/her skin colour would be racist. I agree that demanding a black police officer may also be a contentious issue. I am not suggesting that. In fact quite the opposite. I will use another example of why race might be used for employment..... I have worked in big business's where it is mostly of white origin. Occasionally people would tell me jokes of a racist nature. I am not ok with this, and would simply ask to be left out of the jokes. Other people are ok with the jokes. That's fine too. No one was harmed. Sometimes a 'boys club' could be adopted, not by the employer, but within its walls when you know what you are comfortable with. Now we all know that the police have had a bad name in race relations for 100's of years. Jokes of black men and drug dealings, bmw's etc. terrible. If the police can employ more ethnic minority policemen, I think it would benefit the force and society. Many people would welcome more ethnic policemen. Simply put, if society moves on, then the police must move on also. Ability is the most important issue of course. But most people who see this article and comment only see it from the perspective of the poor guy who did not get the job because of his skin colour. super waluigi
  • Score: 0

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