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North Essex: 'first class' commuter must pay fine
A COMMUTER threatened with arrest for standing in a first-class carriage with a second-class ticket must pay a fine.
Nichola Myhill appealed against the £69 penalty fare, but it was upheld by the Independent Appeals Service and she must pay by Friday.
Packed carriages gave her and two other passengers no choice but to stand in first class if they wanted to board the train heading back to Colchester on April 10.
Miss Myhill, who travels to work in London from Fingringhoe every day, said she was "made to feel like a criminal" and only gave her details to ticket inspectors after being threatened with arrest.
Yesterday a letter arrived confirming that she must pay the fine.
A friend of Miss Myhill, who is on holiday, said: "Rules are rules is the response from the appeal, and she must pay up.
"I've been in touch with her and she said she's got no alternative, as it's not worth going to court and ruining her credit rating over.
"But being very reluctant to pay would be the polite way to describe her reaction.
"She has highlighted the problems of overcrowding on trains and how much commuters have to pay for such a poor service."
8:59am Tuesday 13th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Mark, Witham on 9:21am Tue 13 May 08
If you arrive early for the trains you don't get this problem. If you arrive with literally seconds to spare before the train departs, then why not just let it go if there are no seats and jump on the one 15 minutes later. People are always in such a rush to get places and this is the source of their tension and irritation. If there are no standarc class seats left, you get the next train, you don't sit (or stand) in first class. Its common sense to 99% of those commuting.
If you arrive early for the trains you don't get this problem. If you arrive with literally seconds to spare before the train departs, then why not just let it go if there are no seats and jump on the one 15 minutes later. People are always in such a rush to get places and this is the source of their tension and irritation. If there are no standarc class seats left, you get the next train, you don't sit (or stand) in first class. Its common sense to 99% of those commuting.
Posted by: Mylander, Colchester on 9:25am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Mark[/bold] wrote:
If you arrive early for the trains you don't get this problem. If you arrive with literally seconds to spare before the train departs, then why not just let it go if there are no seats and jump on the one 15 minutes later. People are always in such a rush to get places and this is the source of their tension and irritation. If there are no standarc class seats left, you get the next train, you don't sit (or stand) in first class. Its common sense to 99% of those commuting.[/quote] unless the train turns up with half the carriages missing, or the train you were going for breaks down on the platform and you have to jam on to the only other available train...
Mark wrote:
If you arrive early for the trains you don't get this problem. If you arrive with literally seconds to spare before the train departs, then why not just let it go if there are no seats and jump on the one 15 minutes later. People are always in such a rush to get places and this is the source of their tension and irritation. If there are no standarc class seats left, you get the next train, you don't sit (or stand) in first class. Its common sense to 99% of those commuting.
unless the train turns up with half the carriages missing, or the train you were going for breaks down on the platform and you have to jam on to the only other available train...
Posted by: Smeeth, Colchester on 9:42am Tue 13 May 08
Oh Mark!
'It'scommon sense to 99% of those commuting' - perhaps the rail operator should have used their common sense and just asked the passenger in question to move back into standard class, not fine the poor lass!
... and as far as people being in a rush, they probably HAD to get to work on time, we don't all have the luxury of strolling in to work at 10am with a double shot espresso in hand!
Oh Mark!
'It'scommon sense to 99% of those commuting' - perhaps the rail operator should have used their common sense and just asked the passenger in question to move back into standard class, not fine the poor lass!
... and as far as people being in a rush, they probably HAD to get to work on time, we don't all have the luxury of strolling in to work at 10am with a double shot espresso in hand!
Posted by: Ed, Clacton on 10:12am Tue 13 May 08
If the train was so packed, how did the ticket inspectors (mentioned as plural in the article) manage to pass through the carriages to check tickets?
If the train was so packed, how did the ticket inspectors (mentioned as plural in the article) manage to pass through the carriages to check tickets?
Posted by: Aimee McKenzie, Colchester on 10:28am Tue 13 May 08
How stupid!! The ticket inspector must have been having a bad day; live and let live is what I say!
I use to commute in to London and no matter what time I could get on the train it was always packed. Transport in this country stinks!
How stupid!! The ticket inspector must have been having a bad day; live and let live is what I say!
I use to commute in to London and no matter what time I could get on the train it was always packed. Transport in this country stinks!
Posted by: Anglia Railways were better, St Osyth on 10:47am Tue 13 May 08
I was on a train recently when the 'Revenue Inspectors' aka 'little Hitlers' were on board. Yes the guard made an announcement that they were on board but people did not move out of the disabled area in First Class and were up in arms when the inspectors wanted to take their details. On the other hand the inspectors could have asked the people to move out (but they didn't even give people the option). National Express could do something such as put an extra standard class carriage on the 7.30 from Colchester (yes its a carriage shorter than the 07:15 and 07:45 !!). They could also run at least one train between 07:15 and 07:45 where season ticket holders only are permitted to travel.
People could travel on the slower trrains but these are so uncomfortable if you are over 5'5'' that many people prefer to stand on the inter cities and the 07:15, 07:30 and 07:45 are all packed out so anyone who says wait for the next train obviously isn't a regular traveller. The final insult to us regular travellers is National Express has instructed its staff to use the phrase 'good service' when trains are running punctually. Well I don't think its a good service when you can't get a seat !
I was on a train recently when the 'Revenue Inspectors' aka 'little Hitlers' were on board. Yes the guard made an announcement that they were on board but people did not move out of the disabled area in First Class and were up in arms when the inspectors wanted to take their details. On the other hand the inspectors could have asked the people to move out (but they didn't even give people the option). National Express could do something such as put an extra standard class carriage on the 7.30 from Colchester (yes its a carriage shorter than the 07:15 and 07:45 !!). They could also run at least one train between 07:15 and 07:45 where season ticket holders only are permitted to travel.
People could travel on the slower trrains but these are so uncomfortable if you are over 5'5'' that many people prefer to stand on the inter cities and the 07:15, 07:30 and 07:45 are all packed out so anyone who says wait for the next train obviously isn't a regular traveller. The final insult to us regular travellers is National Express has instructed its staff to use the phrase 'good service' when trains are running punctually. Well I don't think its a good service when you can't get a seat !
Posted by: Nick Smith, Colchester on 10:48am Tue 13 May 08
I do this all the time - run for the Intercity at Liverpool St to Colchester and have to stand or sit on the floor in 1st class because the rest of the train is full - where else am I supposed to stand?? She's not alone here.
I do this all the time - run for the Intercity at Liverpool St to Colchester and have to stand or sit on the floor in 1st class because the rest of the train is full - where else am I supposed to stand?? She's not alone here.
Posted by: commuter, essex on 10:56am Tue 13 May 08
maybe if the trains were on-time, clean, and with enough capacity for everyone to have a seat then this wouldn't happen, what is she getting from standing in first class - a ride home. She is not using any of the 1st class facilities (seats!!!!!), so why make such a fuss over someone standing - its a complete joke that National Express are doing this.
maybe if the trains were on-time, clean, and with enough capacity for everyone to have a seat then this wouldn't happen, what is she getting from standing in first class - a ride home. She is not using any of the 1st class facilities (seats!!!!!), so why make such a fuss over someone standing - its a complete joke that National Express are doing this.
Posted by: commuter, essex on 10:56am Tue 13 May 08
maybe if the trains were on-time, clean, and with enough capacity for everyone to have a seat then this wouldn't happen, what is she getting from standing in first class - a ride home. She is not using any of the 1st class facilities (seats!!!!!), so why make such a fuss over someone standing - its a complete joke that National Express are doing this.
maybe if the trains were on-time, clean, and with enough capacity for everyone to have a seat then this wouldn't happen, what is she getting from standing in first class - a ride home. She is not using any of the 1st class facilities (seats!!!!!), so why make such a fuss over someone standing - its a complete joke that National Express are doing this.
Posted by: Jeff, Colchester on 11:01am Tue 13 May 08
The trains are more more priced and over crowded then they were in the days before Thatcher's privatisation when British Rail ran the railways.
People were promised better service, more trains and lower prices - we got exactly the opposite.
It is time to renationalise the railways, the gas companies, the water companies and the electricity companies.
We were conned by the Tories and both Labour and the Lib Dems helped them with this con trick.
The trains are more more priced and over crowded then they were in the days before Thatcher's privatisation when British Rail ran the railways.
People were promised better service, more trains and lower prices - we got exactly the opposite.
It is time to renationalise the railways, the gas companies, the water companies and the electricity companies.
We were conned by the Tories and both Labour and the Lib Dems helped them with this con trick.
Posted by: train user, CLacton on 11:04am Tue 13 May 08
How unfair is this!! train company should make it possible for people to travel in comfort! If the train was so overcroweded that she had no choice but to stand in 1st class then so be it!! 1st class on National express trains is hardly the ritz! And Marks comment is totaly unfair. I often get on the train at colchester to ipswich. or colchester to London. i get to the platform in good time. And the train is already packed to bursting point!!
How unfair is this!! train company should make it possible for people to travel in comfort! If the train was so overcroweded that she had no choice but to stand in 1st class then so be it!! 1st class on National express trains is hardly the ritz! And Marks comment is totaly unfair. I often get on the train at colchester to ipswich. or colchester to London. i get to the platform in good time. And the train is already packed to bursting point!!
Posted by: Red Tape, Colchester on 12:20pm Tue 13 May 08
Next time she'll know better - give a false name & address and the little jobworth sc*mbags can't track you down!
Next time she'll know better - give a false name & address and the little jobworth sc*mbags can't track you down!
Posted by: DK, London on 12:51pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Mark[/bold] wrote:
If you arrive early for the trains you don't get this problem. If you arrive with literally seconds to spare before the train departs, then why not just let it go if there are no seats and jump on the one 15 minutes later. People are always in such a rush to get places and this is the source of their tension and irritation. If there are no standarc class seats left, you get the next train, you don't sit (or stand) in first class. Its common sense to 99% of those commuting.[/quote] I was actually on the train when this incident took place, the offending ticket inspector had previously done this to me as well, even though he let several other members of the public continue to sit on the floor of 1st class, he singled me out as he has done to this girl too, as far as I am aware the other people that paid the fine have since been refunded as well, this girl has been vitimised for no good reason at all. Since this incident took place there have have been occassional inspectors standing on the door like bouncers not allowing people to pass through the carriages let alone sit on the floor! Even these inspectors have complained at the lack of carriages on this VERY busy service.
If there were enough carriages to accomodate the people that pay to use this service (near £400 per month from Colchester) then we wouldnt be sitting on the floor full stop. I am disgusted that this girl has been threatend and fined in this way, surely the inspector who threatend her should have to at least apologise to this girl for his aggressive behaviour?
As to answer your question Mark, there are never ANY seats on this particular journey, I have been using it for the last 2 years day in and day out and have had a seat twice (both over the Christmas period when there is no one else travelling to London!)
Mark wrote:
If you arrive early for the trains you don't get this problem. If you arrive with literally seconds to spare before the train departs, then why not just let it go if there are no seats and jump on the one 15 minutes later. People are always in such a rush to get places and this is the source of their tension and irritation. If there are no standarc class seats left, you get the next train, you don't sit (or stand) in first class. Its common sense to 99% of those commuting.
I was actually on the train when this incident took place, the offending ticket inspector had previously done this to me as well, even though he let several other members of the public continue to sit on the floor of 1st class, he singled me out as he has done to this girl too, as far as I am aware the other people that paid the fine have since been refunded as well, this girl has been vitimised for no good reason at all. Since this incident took place there have have been occassional inspectors standing on the door like bouncers not allowing people to pass through the carriages let alone sit on the floor! Even these inspectors have complained at the lack of carriages on this VERY busy service.
If there were enough carriages to accomodate the people that pay to use this service (near £400 per month from Colchester) then we wouldnt be sitting on the floor full stop. I am disgusted that this girl has been threatend and fined in this way, surely the inspector who threatend her should have to at least apologise to this girl for his aggressive behaviour?
As to answer your question Mark, there are never ANY seats on this particular journey, I have been using it for the last 2 years day in and day out and have had a seat twice (both over the Christmas period when there is no one else travelling to London!)
Posted by: ME, Colchester on 1:07pm Tue 13 May 08
http://www.nationale
xpresseastanglia.com
/information/news/co
lchester_north_is_na
med_best_mainline_st
ation_for_april
try this then, this will have you crying with laughter !
http://www.nationale
xpresseastanglia.com
/information/news/co
lchester_north_is_na
med_best_mainline_st
ation_for_april
try this then, this will have you crying with laughter !
Posted by: ME, Colchester on 1:10pm Tue 13 May 08
http://www.nationale
xpresseastanglia.com
/information/news/co
lchester_north_is_na
med_best_mainline_st
ation_for_april
http://www.nationale
xpresseastanglia.com
/information/news/co
lchester_north_is_na
med_best_mainline_st
ation_for_april
Posted by: amc, colchester on 1:25pm Tue 13 May 08
I cannot believe how truly disgusting these little jobs worth Hitlers behave ! have they no sense of fair play ? and to add further insult the appeals board compound it ! What about the new wave of Health & Safety legislation, can't this be used as a factor for once ! Surely it's "safer" to stand out of peoples way than causing a possible accident by blocking the aisles ? What if the train had crashed ? It appears as usual that big companies get away with it all the time while the poor old working tax payers get caught ALL the time, Come the revolution .....
I cannot believe how truly disgusting these little jobs worth Hitlers behave ! have they no sense of fair play ? and to add further insult the appeals board compound it ! What about the new wave of Health & Safety legislation, can't this be used as a factor for once ! Surely it's "safer" to stand out of peoples way than causing a possible accident by blocking the aisles ? What if the train had crashed ? It appears as usual that big companies get away with it all the time while the poor old working tax payers get caught ALL the time, Come the revolution .....
Posted by: Julie, Colchester on 1:26pm Tue 13 May 08
Why don't we scrap 1st Class carriages altogether? How many people actually use them anyway?
Why don't we scrap 1st Class carriages altogether? How many people actually use them anyway?
Posted by: Anglia Railways were better, St Osyth on 1:39pm Tue 13 May 08
ME, my colleagues have just had to pour cold water over me to stop me laughing...Colcheste
r North best mainline station must be the best joke this year. Ok since NCP took over the car parks things have improved such as reducing the number of parking bays in the satelite car park and railway employees having their own reserved bays........As to the goon who stops passengers 6-10feet away from the door of the first class carriage, under the railway by-laws he cannot stop you standing right up to the door if you so wish....
ME, my colleagues have just had to pour cold water over me to stop me laughing...Colcheste
r North best mainline station must be the best joke this year. Ok since NCP took over the car parks things have improved such as reducing the number of parking bays in the satelite car park and railway employees having their own reserved bays........As to the goon who stops passengers 6-10feet away from the door of the first class carriage, under the railway by-laws he cannot stop you standing right up to the door if you so wish....
Posted by: Commuter, Colchester on 1:54pm Tue 13 May 08
Mark's comments about it being commonsense to wait for the next trains ommits the fact that most trains when arriving at colchester in the monring are packed even if you are the first one on the train 2) when you get on at Liverpool Street to get home, the trains are full within a couple of mins of them pulling in (normally 10-15 mins before they are due to leave. Every night i have travelled home this fortnight, we have had people standing throughout our carriage and in the buffet car. there is a huge amount of space between first class carriages near the disabled toilets which you cannot expect someone not to stand if the rest of the train is jammed full and you cannot get through. It is the approach of Ticket inspectors (who are normally quite pleasant) in this case that has annoyed me. Why be so threatening. Or as she is a season ticket holder, ask her to pay to upgrade? National Express make out like the information they provide is correct but half the time they get it wrong. Also on one train last week - 4 ticket inspectors were on the trani and each one asked to see my ticket, only when pointed out to them the guy infront had, he realised what an idiot they looked like.
Mark's comments about it being commonsense to wait for the next trains ommits the fact that most trains when arriving at colchester in the monring are packed even if you are the first one on the train 2) when you get on at Liverpool Street to get home, the trains are full within a couple of mins of them pulling in (normally 10-15 mins before they are due to leave. Every night i have travelled home this fortnight, we have had people standing throughout our carriage and in the buffet car. there is a huge amount of space between first class carriages near the disabled toilets which you cannot expect someone not to stand if the rest of the train is jammed full and you cannot get through. It is the approach of Ticket inspectors (who are normally quite pleasant) in this case that has annoyed me. Why be so threatening. Or as she is a season ticket holder, ask her to pay to upgrade? National Express make out like the information they provide is correct but half the time they get it wrong. Also on one train last week - 4 ticket inspectors were on the trani and each one asked to see my ticket, only when pointed out to them the guy infront had, he realised what an idiot they looked like.
Posted by: Anglia Railways were better, St Osyth on 2:18pm Tue 13 May 08
I couldn't agree with you more commuter. But I think it isn't the guards that are taking this heavy handed approach its the revenue inspectors who are a different breed (Rottweilers rather than poodles...). I've seen them snatch a ticket off someone in the past. Its about time the Chief executive of N.E experienced things for himself and came out of his ivory tower and tried the commute between 07:00 and 08:00 then he might actually see what we have to put up with. But the chances of that ever happening are about as slim as me getting a seat on one of his trains....
I couldn't agree with you more commuter. But I think it isn't the guards that are taking this heavy handed approach its the revenue inspectors who are a different breed (Rottweilers rather than poodles...). I've seen them snatch a ticket off someone in the past. Its about time the Chief executive of N.E experienced things for himself and came out of his ivory tower and tried the commute between 07:00 and 08:00 then he might actually see what we have to put up with. But the chances of that ever happening are about as slim as me getting a seat on one of his trains....
Posted by: Caroline, Colchester on 2:19pm Tue 13 May 08
There should be no 1st class carriages on commuter trains. This fine is disgraceful.
There should be no 1st class carriages on commuter trains. This fine is disgraceful.
Posted by: Red Tape, Colchester on 2:41pm Tue 13 May 08
It's about time the railways treated their customers with a bit more respect. For a start I'd give every Annual Season Ticket holder a guaranteed seat on a service of their choice and free parking.
It's about time the railways treated their customers with a bit more respect. For a start I'd give every Annual Season Ticket holder a guaranteed seat on a service of their choice and free parking.
Posted by: me, here on 2:49pm Tue 13 May 08
I have travelled on thr railway over the past year on a few occasions, and have got to say they are like cattle trucks. On the times I have travelled to and from London once my wife and I had to sit in the joining area of the carriages as there was no where else to sit, and first class was EMPTY. Another time it was exactly the same and I sat in first class, as I personally felt "I have paid for a seat so I am using one" No one came near me and my ticket was checked by an inspector who carried on through the train as normal. This government wish people to use public transport and reduce cars on the road. There is no way on this earth that I will use public transport until it is running properly, clean trains/ buses, run on time,plenty of space for everyone to have a seat, and the most important of all.....make them cheaper.
I have travelled on thr railway over the past year on a few occasions, and have got to say they are like cattle trucks. On the times I have travelled to and from London once my wife and I had to sit in the joining area of the carriages as there was no where else to sit, and first class was EMPTY. Another time it was exactly the same and I sat in first class, as I personally felt "I have paid for a seat so I am using one" No one came near me and my ticket was checked by an inspector who carried on through the train as normal. This government wish people to use public transport and reduce cars on the road. There is no way on this earth that I will use public transport until it is running properly, clean trains/ buses, run on time,plenty of space for everyone to have a seat, and the most important of all.....make them cheaper.
Posted by: Mylander, Colchester on 4:00pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Red Tape[/bold] wrote:
It\'s about time the railways treated their customers with a bit more respect. For a start I\'d give every Annual Season Ticket holder a guaranteed seat on a service of their choice and free parking.[/quote] Have to agree with that, customer focus seems to be lost on the railways, at best we are treated as an inconvience at worst as cattle
Red Tape wrote:
It\'s about time the railways treated their customers with a bit more respect. For a start I\'d give every Annual Season Ticket holder a guaranteed seat on a service of their choice and free parking.
Have to agree with that, customer focus seems to be lost on the railways, at best we are treated as an inconvience at worst as cattle
Posted by: Scooby, Colchester on 5:07pm Tue 13 May 08
Rules are rules so she got fined for breaking them - although I think it is incredibly harsh.
The one thing I agree with is that 1st class should be scrapped and extra carriages be included in rush hour
Rules are rules so she got fined for breaking them - although I think it is incredibly harsh.
The one thing I agree with is that 1st class should be scrapped and extra carriages be included in rush hour
Posted by: Old Timer, Colchester on 5:12pm Tue 13 May 08
Bring back British Rail.
They were better and cheaper.
I agree with the Jeff that the government should renationalise the Gas, Water, Electricty and the Trains.
It was simpler and cheaper.
Bring back British Rail.
They were better and cheaper.
I agree with the Jeff that the government should renationalise the Gas, Water, Electricty and the Trains.
It was simpler and cheaper.
Posted by: asto, Colchester on 5:12pm Tue 13 May 08
The stance adopted by NE and the appeal body is appalling. The service on the trains is woeful. NE know the trains are overcrowded, so what do they do? Ban people on cheapday tickets from travelling, thereby forcing people to have to pay more just for the right to stand, or possibly to pay more and be delayed until off peak starts anyway.
I got up at 5.30am today, to get the 6.20am train from Colchester Town. It arrives late, leaves later and then stops outside Colchester. When the delay hits 25 minutes, and there is a risk of compensation being paid, the train (which we had been told had developed a fault), miraculously reversed so we could all be dumped - standing room only - onto one of the express trains. I was already running late, and had no choice but to be crammed into this train. No apology of course. Absolutely shocking.
The stance adopted by NE and the appeal body is appalling. The service on the trains is woeful. NE know the trains are overcrowded, so what do they do? Ban people on cheapday tickets from travelling, thereby forcing people to have to pay more just for the right to stand, or possibly to pay more and be delayed until off peak starts anyway.
I got up at 5.30am today, to get the 6.20am train from Colchester Town. It arrives late, leaves later and then stops outside Colchester. When the delay hits 25 minutes, and there is a risk of compensation being paid, the train (which we had been told had developed a fault), miraculously reversed so we could all be dumped - standing room only - onto one of the express trains. I was already running late, and had no choice but to be crammed into this train. No apology of course. Absolutely shocking.
Posted by: Mile Ender, Colchester on 5:13pm Tue 13 May 08
When you fly you are paying for the rent of the seat to a destination so on a train it should be the same. No one stands on a plane. In this day in age there should be a system where it should be known if trains are going to be full. People should be made to get a train at a set time like a plane. Then if someone goes to buy a ticket and they are told there are no seats then they can decide if they want to pay to stand(which should be at a reduced rate) or get a later train.
When you fly you are paying for the rent of the seat to a destination so on a train it should be the same. No one stands on a plane. In this day in age there should be a system where it should be known if trains are going to be full. People should be made to get a train at a set time like a plane. Then if someone goes to buy a ticket and they are told there are no seats then they can decide if they want to pay to stand(which should be at a reduced rate) or get a later train.
Posted by: Feisty CBC, Colchester on 5:29pm Tue 13 May 08
So if I need to use the loo and the toilets in standard class are out of order or I can't get past the [italic]cattle[/italic] would I be fined for taking a first class crap? That stinks and so does this! National Express stick to ya coaches.
So if I need to use the loo and the toilets in standard class are out of order or I can't get past the
cattle would I be fined for taking a first class crap? That stinks and so does this! National Express stick to ya coaches.
Posted by: van man, colchester on 5:40pm Tue 13 May 08
Trying to get a free upgrade, no doubt.
That will teach them!
If you want to use first class, then just pay for it, you spongers!
Trying to get a free upgrade, no doubt.
That will teach them!
If you want to use first class, then just pay for it, you spongers!
Posted by: Dave, Harwich on 8:08pm Tue 13 May 08
Every regular commuter knows where to find a seat on trains leaving Liverpool Street. It is a fact that some people choose to stand in the first class area near the disabled toilet on the intercity trains even when there are empty seats further up the train. I have always wondered why they did this and my only guess can be that these people either can't be bothered to walk further up the train to find a seat or they prefer to stand in this area so that they are near exit at Colchester and they can be first out of the carpark.
This lady know what she was doing and has had to pay the price.
Every regular commuter knows where to find a seat on trains leaving Liverpool Street. It is a fact that some people choose to stand in the first class area near the disabled toilet on the intercity trains even when there are empty seats further up the train. I have always wondered why they did this and my only guess can be that these people either can't be bothered to walk further up the train to find a seat or they prefer to stand in this area so that they are near exit at Colchester and they can be first out of the carpark.
This lady know what she was doing and has had to pay the price.
Posted by: Ginsters Dragon, Wivenhoe on 10:13pm Tue 13 May 08
I suspect that Mark from Witham has never been a regular commuter - I have and I can totally sympathise with Miss Myhill's principled stand. It wasn't even as if she was sitting down in the first class carriage, so how, exactly, was she supposed to have unfairly benefitted from her 'ticket dodging' (nicer carpet?!).
You should be proud of yourself Nichola, you've done the right thing and shown the train operator to be a grasping, profit-hungry monopoly with scant regard for its long suffering customers.
I suspect that Mark from Witham has never been a regular commuter - I have and I can totally sympathise with Miss Myhill's principled stand. It wasn't even as if she was sitting down in the first class carriage, so how, exactly, was she supposed to have unfairly benefitted from her 'ticket dodging' (nicer carpet?!).
You should be proud of yourself Nichola, you've done the right thing and shown the train operator to be a grasping, profit-hungry monopoly with scant regard for its long suffering customers.
Posted by: Ginsters Dragon, Wivenhoe on 10:20pm Tue 13 May 08
.... Oh, and as for the appeals panel, I'd be very interested to know the background of the people making up the panel to assess their 'independence' for myself. About as independent as the IPCC I imagine.
.... Oh, and as for the appeals panel, I'd be very interested to know the background of the people making up the panel to assess their 'independence' for myself. About as independent as the IPCC I imagine.
Posted by: Commuta on 8:36am Wed 14 May 08
I was on a train last week when the ticket inspectors came through - no problem there - but when they reached the end of the train - they both took seats in the (empty) first class compartment for the rest of the journey into Colchester, even though there were plenty of seats in standard. I thought about taking a photo with my phone - but was worried about being branded a terrorist. . . .
I was on a train last week when the ticket inspectors came through - no problem there - but when they reached the end of the train - they both took seats in the (empty) first class compartment for the rest of the journey into Colchester, even though there were plenty of seats in standard. I thought about taking a photo with my phone - but was worried about being branded a terrorist. . . .
Posted by: Ginsters Dragon, Wivenhoe on 10:34am Wed 14 May 08
"First class crap" just about sums it up Feisty CBC... Perhaps that should have been the headline.
"First class crap" just about sums it up Feisty CBC... Perhaps that should have been the headline.
Posted by: DK, London on 3:58pm Wed 14 May 08
[quote]Rules are rules so she got fined for breaking them - although I think it is incredibly harsh.[/quote]
She was sitting on the floor out of the way not doing anything to infringe on the 1st class travellers, not taking up any of their seat, which there are plenty of! She was threatened with arrest for this and its ridiculous. Personally I would have told time to call the police as I am sure they wouldnt have bothered to attend but I know that on countless occassions people have been allowed to sit on the floor of 1st class (and STILL do!) when there is no other room available, for this one person to be singled out to make this particular ticket inspectors feel a bit bigger is sad and wrong.
Rules are rules so she got fined for breaking them - although I think it is incredibly harsh.
She was sitting on the floor out of the way not doing anything to infringe on the 1st class travellers, not taking up any of their seat, which there are plenty of! She was threatened with arrest for this and its ridiculous. Personally I would have told time to call the police as I am sure they wouldnt have bothered to attend but I know that on countless occassions people have been allowed to sit on the floor of 1st class (and STILL do!) when there is no other room available, for this one person to be singled out to make this particular ticket inspectors feel a bit bigger is sad and wrong.
Posted by: Anglia was much better, St OSyth on 4:50pm Wed 14 May 08
Oh DK, but they do call the police ! I saw them there recently with someone who'd been nabbed for doing the same thing. Its the same as when there are severe delays, theres always loads of police around. But when theres an abusive drunk around they are nowhere to be seen until someone complains by mobile and the train stops for several minutes whilst the person is arrested thus causing more delays which wouldn't have occured if the police had been around and done their job in the first place.
Oh DK, but they do call the police ! I saw them there recently with someone who'd been nabbed for doing the same thing. Its the same as when there are severe delays, theres always loads of police around. But when theres an abusive drunk around they are nowhere to be seen until someone complains by mobile and the train stops for several minutes whilst the person is arrested thus causing more delays which wouldn't have occured if the police had been around and done their job in the first place.
Posted by: DK, Londinium on 1:08pm Thu 15 May 08
I have my own issues with the BTP and the railways, none of them can sort anything out and the victims are left with out any justice.
I have my own issues with the BTP and the railways, none of them can sort anything out and the victims are left with out any justice.
Posted by: Robert Beisley, Stanway on 2:18pm Thu 15 May 08
Congratulations NXEA. If you tried to find a better way to shoot yourself in the foot you wouldn't have. Miss Myhill (a season tkt holder !!, not fare dodger ) should never have been treated like this . I suspect if 'she had been a he' the inspector would have turned a blind eye. Perhaps the inspector had a quota to reach & Miss Myhill was just too temping a target & as female unlikely to be troublesome. I hope that NXEA will instruct their inspectors to show more flexibility in future as trains do get very crowded. In any event the negative publicity for the train company should be focusing minds in this direction.
Congratulations NXEA. If you tried to find a better way to shoot yourself in the foot you wouldn't have. Miss Myhill (a season tkt holder !!, not fare dodger ) should never have been treated like this . I suspect if 'she had been a he' the inspector would have turned a blind eye. Perhaps the inspector had a quota to reach & Miss Myhill was just too temping a target & as female unlikely to be troublesome. I hope that NXEA will instruct their inspectors to show more flexibility in future as trains do get very crowded. In any event the negative publicity for the train company should be focusing minds in this direction.
Posted by: inspector jim, colchester on 11:30pm Thu 15 May 08
what people dont understand is first class pasengers have very big heads and need a shoe horn to remove there heads from there back sides ,, you would not beleave the amount off complaints from them when there tickets are not checked ,and they will report inspectors when someone is in first class with a standard
ticket iff the inspectors dont ask them to leave even when there old and even pregnant
thats the sort of people that go first class
sooner we do away with first class the better
what people dont understand is first class pasengers have very big heads and need a shoe horn to remove there heads from there back sides ,, you would not beleave the amount off complaints from them when there tickets are not checked ,and they will report inspectors when someone is in first class with a standard
ticket iff the inspectors dont ask them to leave even when there old and even pregnant
thats the sort of people that go first class
sooner we do away with first class the better
Posted by: first class season ticket holder, frinton on 11:41pm Thu 15 May 08
[quote][bold]DK[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Rules are rules so she got fined for breaking them - although I think it is incredibly harsh.[/quote] She was sitting on the floor out of the way not doing anything to infringe on the 1st class travellers, not taking up any of their seat, which there are plenty of! She was threatened with arrest for this and its ridiculous. Personally I would have told time to call the police as I am sure they wouldnt have bothered to attend but I know that on countless occassions people have been allowed to sit on the floor of 1st class (and STILL do!) when there is no other room available, for this one person to be singled out to make this particular ticket inspectors feel a bit bigger is sad and wrong.[/quote] i pay a dam site more to travel first class
so why should someone be allowed to be in first class even to sit on the floor,
theres plenty off trains so if its packed wait for the next one,,, its no nx fault if everyone wonts to travel on the norwich train,
hope the inspectors keep up there good work
DK wrote:
Rules are rules so she got fined for breaking them - although I think it is incredibly harsh.
She was sitting on the floor out of the way not doing anything to infringe on the 1st class travellers, not taking up any of their seat, which there are plenty of! She was threatened with arrest for this and its ridiculous. Personally I would have told time to call the police as I am sure they wouldnt have bothered to attend but I know that on countless occassions people have been allowed to sit on the floor of 1st class (and STILL do!) when there is no other room available, for this one person to be singled out to make this particular ticket inspectors feel a bit bigger is sad and wrong.
i pay a dam site more to travel first class
so why should someone be allowed to be in first class even to sit on the floor,
theres plenty off trains so if its packed wait for the next one,,, its no nx fault if everyone wonts to travel on the norwich train,
hope the inspectors keep up there good work
Posted by: Ginsters Dragon, Wivenhoe on 8:48am Fri 16 May 08
"i pay a dam site more to travel first class"..... There's just no accounting for that. Do you expect to be rewarded for your poor judgement? Why am I not suprised that you live in Frinton?
"i pay a dam site more to travel first class"..... There's just no accounting for that. Do you expect to be rewarded for your poor judgement? Why am I not suprised that you live in Frinton?
Posted by: Red Tape, Colchester on 1:16pm Fri 16 May 08
"I pay a dam site more to travel first class".....
Yes let the Oiks travel in second class where they belong eh old chap! Jolly good show too! Have you been paid your big city bonus yet? I bet you're worth every penny of the £x,000s you got so you can afford your nice seat. Or maybe you just went to the right school, play cricket/golf with the MD and wore the right tie!
"I pay a dam site more to travel first class".....
Yes let the Oiks travel in second class where they belong eh old chap! Jolly good show too! Have you been paid your big city bonus yet? I bet you're worth every penny of the £x,000s you got so you can afford your nice seat. Or maybe you just went to the right school, play cricket/golf with the MD and wore the right tie!
Posted by: lord off the mannor, upper class frinton on 11:22pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Red Tape[/bold] wrote:
"I pay a dam site more to travel first class"..... Yes let the Oiks travel in second class where they belong eh old chap! Jolly good show too! Have you been paid your big city bonus yet? I bet you're worth every penny of the £x,000s you got so you can afford your nice seat. Or maybe you just went to the right school, play cricket/golf with the MD and wore the right tie![/quote] hi red tape yes i did get my bonus £68.000
this year so i can keep my £600,000 5 bedroom house,, sorry i dont play golf as its gone down hill now any oik or common bloke
can get a bank loan and join a golf club ,,,
sorry you dont have to wear a tie at the top..
cricket i would rather watch paint dry ..
have a good weekend ,,,
Red Tape wrote:
"I pay a dam site more to travel first class"..... Yes let the Oiks travel in second class where they belong eh old chap! Jolly good show too! Have you been paid your big city bonus yet? I bet you're worth every penny of the £x,000s you got so you can afford your nice seat. Or maybe you just went to the right school, play cricket/golf with the MD and wore the right tie!
hi red tape yes i did get my bonus £68.000
this year so i can keep my £600,000 5 bedroom house,, sorry i dont play golf as its gone down hill now any oik or common bloke
can get a bank loan and join a golf club ,,,
sorry you dont have to wear a tie at the top..
cricket i would rather watch paint dry ..
have a good weekend ,,,
Posted by: lord off the mannor, frinton on 9:31am Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Ginsters Dragon[/bold] wrote:
"i pay a dam site more to travel first class"..... There's just no accounting for that. Do you expect to be rewarded for your poor judgement? Why am I not suprised that you live in Frinton? [/quote] well no wonder why our country is called broken britain you just prove how people have distrespect rules and laws,,
thank god i live in frinton and not wivenhoe
i bet you park on yellow lines get a parking
ticket and tell the warden ive only been
here for 5 mins then moan and whinge dont you,,,,,,,,,,,
Ginsters Dragon wrote:
"i pay a dam site more to travel first class"..... There's just no accounting for that. Do you expect to be rewarded for your poor judgement? Why am I not suprised that you live in Frinton?
well no wonder why our country is called broken britain you just prove how people have distrespect rules and laws,,
thank god i live in frinton and not wivenhoe
i bet you park on yellow lines get a parking
ticket and tell the warden ive only been
here for 5 mins then moan and whinge dont you,,,,,,,,,,,
Posted by: lord off the manor, frinton on 9:40am Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Commuta[/bold] wrote:
I was on a train last week when the ticket inspectors came through - no problem there - but when they reached the end of the train - they both took seats in the (empty) first class compartment for the rest of the journey into Colchester, even though there were plenty of seats in standard. I thought about taking a photo with my phone - but was worried about being branded a terrorist. . . .[/quote] ticket inspectors have a first class pass so they have a rite to be there,,,, un like others who have standerd tickets,,,
im waiting for the first smoker to get a 40£ fine for smokeing on stations and yes they are public places and then see how they justify that ,,,,,,
Commuta wrote:
I was on a train last week when the ticket inspectors came through - no problem there - but when they reached the end of the train - they both took seats in the (empty) first class compartment for the rest of the journey into Colchester, even though there were plenty of seats in standard. I thought about taking a photo with my phone - but was worried about being branded a terrorist. . . .
ticket inspectors have a first class pass so they have a rite to be there,,,, un like others who have standerd tickets,,,
im waiting for the first smoker to get a 40£ fine for smokeing on stations and yes they are public places and then see how they justify that ,,,,,,
Posted by: Ginsters Dragon, Wivenhoe on 6:26pm Sun 18 May 08
'No wonder our country is called broken Britain' - Only by Daily Express readers Frinton gent, if that's your reading matter of choice perhaps I shouldn't be suprised by your depressing view of society.
'No wonder our country is called broken Britain' - Only by Daily Express readers Frinton gent, if that's your reading matter of choice perhaps I shouldn't be suprised by your depressing view of society.
Posted by: fgo, frinton on 3:48pm Mon 19 May 08
[quote][bold]Ginsters Dragon[/bold] wrote:
'No wonder our country is called broken Britain' - Only by Daily Express readers Frinton gent, if that's your reading matter of choice perhaps I shouldn't be suprised by your depressing view of society. [/quote] you can all ways tell a sun reader
Ginsters Dragon wrote:
'No wonder our country is called broken Britain' - Only by Daily Express readers Frinton gent, if that's your reading matter of choice perhaps I shouldn't be suprised by your depressing view of society.
you can all ways tell a sun reader
Posted by: Keith Ballantyne, Ipswich on 11:26am Fri 23 May 08
The real iniquity of this case is that while people such as Nichola Myhill are dealt with in this appalling manner, many seats in 1st and standard class accommodation are occupied by (mainly National Express, but not exclusively) rail staff travelling free of charge. These people are supposed to vacate their seats when paying customers are standing, and are in breach of their conditions of service if they do not do this, but they rarely do, in fact I have only ever seen one person do so, and only one train conductor enforce it. Under British Rail and Anglia Railways, this regulation was strictly enforced, but since National Express took over the franchise, it has not been.
I raised this matter with National Express East Anglia’s head of Public Affairs Jonathan Denby, who told me that although this was strictly correct, his company’s staff did not have the power to enforce it, which is a downright nonsense, but this response hardly surprised me, because I have seen him sitting while paying customers stand on more than one occasion.
Another issue relevant to Nichola’s case is that of Police Officers occupying first class seats without tickets. British Transport Police officers and employees are entitled to free standard or first class travel (dependent on grade/rank) to and from their places of work, but I have seen officers of both the Metropolitan and City of London Police Forces occupying first class seats on trains where paying customers are standing and producing their warrant cards to both train conductors and ticket barrier staff in lieu of tickets. It is a fact that such (i.e non-BTP) officers are only allowed to do this in the line of duty, and not merely to travel to work and back. When I questioned Mr. Denby about this, he again agreed with what I said but then excused this on the grounds that ‘some train conductors are intimidated by the presence of police officers, but like them to be in first class so they know where they are in case of ‘trouble’. So what this means in effect is that National Express East Anglia are permitting those who’s job it is to uphold the law, to break it themselves. And the two off-duty Metropolitan Police officers who were called upon to enforce the law in the unfortunate case of Nichola Myhill were no doubt travelling without proper tickets or passes themselves. I am sorry, but I do not pay a component of my local and national taxes in support of a police force to have them act as unpaid enforcers for a private transport company who should provide such facilities for itself.
However, I do pay over £6000 a year to travel first class on National Excess (sic) East Anglia and am so fed up of this nonsense I am forming an direct action group. And not another of the sterile Rail User groups or internet forums either. Among the objectives I will be hoping to achieve is the ‘naming and shaming’ of rail staff who occupy seats for free while paying customers stand. Anyone interested in joining can contact me at keith_ballantyne@hot
mail.co.uk
The real iniquity of this case is that while people such as Nichola Myhill are dealt with in this appalling manner, many seats in 1st and standard class accommodation are occupied by (mainly National Express, but not exclusively) rail staff travelling free of charge. These people are supposed to vacate their seats when paying customers are standing, and are in breach of their conditions of service if they do not do this, but they rarely do, in fact I have only ever seen one person do so, and only one train conductor enforce it. Under British Rail and Anglia Railways, this regulation was strictly enforced, but since National Express took over the franchise, it has not been.
I raised this matter with National Express East Anglia’s head of Public Affairs Jonathan Denby, who told me that although this was strictly correct, his company’s staff did not have the power to enforce it, which is a downright nonsense, but this response hardly surprised me, because I have seen him sitting while paying customers stand on more than one occasion.
Another issue relevant to Nichola’s case is that of Police Officers occupying first class seats without tickets. British Transport Police officers and employees are entitled to free standard or first class travel (dependent on grade/rank) to and from their places of work, but I have seen officers of both the Metropolitan and City of London Police Forces occupying first class seats on trains where paying customers are standing and producing their warrant cards to both train conductors and ticket barrier staff in lieu of tickets. It is a fact that such (i.e non-BTP) officers are only allowed to do this in the line of duty, and not merely to travel to work and back. When I questioned Mr. Denby about this, he again agreed with what I said but then excused this on the grounds that ‘some train conductors are intimidated by the presence of police officers, but like them to be in first class so they know where they are in case of ‘trouble’. So what this means in effect is that National Express East Anglia are permitting those who’s job it is to uphold the law, to break it themselves. And the two off-duty Metropolitan Police officers who were called upon to enforce the law in the unfortunate case of Nichola Myhill were no doubt travelling without proper tickets or passes themselves. I am sorry, but I do not pay a component of my local and national taxes in support of a police force to have them act as unpaid enforcers for a private transport company who should provide such facilities for itself.
However, I do pay over £6000 a year to travel first class on National Excess (sic) East Anglia and am so fed up of this nonsense I am forming an direct action group. And not another of the sterile Rail User groups or internet forums either. Among the objectives I will be hoping to achieve is the ‘naming and shaming’ of rail staff who occupy seats for free while paying customers stand. Anyone interested in joining can contact me at keith_ballantyne@hot
mail.co.uk
Posted by: ole bill, essex on 7:40pm Fri 23 May 08
you have 2 chances none and nil....
cant you do something worth while like form a group off wannbe somebodys to sweep the streets
you have 2 chances none and nil....
cant you do something worth while like form a group off wannbe somebodys to sweep the streets
Posted by: James Farnsworth, Wentworth Surrey on 2:12am Wed 28 May 08
I am utterly delighted that Nichola must pay her fine. I also travel First Class on this route. Unlike the above First Class season ticket holder who has it cheap, I pay a premium for "First Open Return" tickets. How dare Nichola sit in First Class with a Second Class ticket. The rotten girl should decamp to Common Class. I routinely laugh when I sit in the sanctity of the First Class Lounge at Liverpool St and watch the Commoners like Nichola pass, rushing for their train, rushing in vein for a Standard seat... Oh the joy of First Class rail travel.[/bold]
I am utterly delighted that Nichola must pay her fine. I also travel First Class on this route. Unlike the above First Class season ticket holder who has it cheap, I pay a premium for "First Open Return" tickets. How dare Nichola sit in First Class with a Second Class ticket. The rotten girl should decamp to Common Class. I routinely laugh when I sit in the sanctity of the First Class Lounge at Liverpool St and watch the Commoners like Nichola pass, rushing for their train, rushing in vein for a Standard seat... Oh the joy of First Class rail travel.
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